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this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
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it's a genocide; that's the point.
it's a genocide; it's not rational.
Couldn't you use that same claim to say that multiple known genocides weren't because the populations are higher now? Heck, I see morons use the same argument to claim China isn't committing genocide because the Uighur population is higher now.
The fallacious "but the population is higher" argument is an idiotic attempt to whitewash genocide.
I mean China isn't committing genocide, anyone can go to Xinjiang, and delegations of most Muslim countries have verified as much. We know what genocide looks like, it doesn't look like anti-poverty programs and education + doctors per capita approaching the national average, and a life expectancy of 75.
But one of the more telling parts about the genocide in Gaza is that while population was increasing, average age decreases; people have more kids because they've got a <50% chance to make it to 18.
Population was increasing in Xinjiang faster than the national average because recognized minorities were exempt from the 1 child policy, before it was removed.
It can be hard to find evidence beyond pictures that look pretty damning on those 'education camps' and first hand accounts of people who claim to have experienced things that we would usually refer to as part of a genocidal campaign. China is trying real hard to get to that point, It's maybe the nicest way to wipe out an ethnic group, but primary focus past few years seems to be on forced implanted contraception and sterilization.
It definitely seems to be working out.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide
Adrain Zenz, the man behind the Uyghur bullshit, is a Christian Fascist whom according to himself was ordained from the fucking god to spread this bullshit
Also, the last time this "evidence" was making rounds, it was debunked. Not only they had pictures of fucking actors who weren't Uyghur, their evidence contained AI generated images.
Give me ONE, fucking ONE, piece of hard evidence that can prove what Adrian Zenz and RFA say. Mainstream Media is literally parroting the words of actually insane people just because China Le Bad.
Also, on purely philosophical grounds, the country that's funding a Muslim genocide and conducts systematic racism against them, also known as the United States of America, and their lapdog Israel, are the last two countries on this earth that can say anything remotely advocating relating to Muslims rights.
You can go look at the camps if you want, it's all available via satellite pictures:
https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/?marker=3405
Beyond that the best we got is probably all the Uyghurs talking about it.
Didn't someone go there and find out these are literally prison complexes? By that count, USA is commiting genocide against millions of people lol
Yeah, there's a lot of videos out there and they are definitely built like a prison. Very few of the inside, not sure if that's good or bad.
As far as the US, considering the scale and purpose, not sure the two are that comparable, but also not really a contest, an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere. I don't disagree that both are a problem though, but definitely been a bit longer since anyone had a reason to accuse the US of mass sterilization. Did happen in US prisons too though, and a lot more recently than you might think, thankfully smaller scale.
Did you see the article's source? It's Adrian Zenz.
Weird dude, but I do find it interesting that we always seem to find some problem with any person anywhere who speaks critically of China.
You can check the camps on satellite though:
https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/?
The point is that dude has no means to collect such statistics, he's not a research agency asking representative samples about their medical history, documenting his methodology and making the data available, and he's not even citing statistics supplied by hospitals.
He literally just pulled those charts out of his ass. Instead of "well yes, they're lying, but I'm sure the broader point is true", consider "would they have any need to fabricate things if the broader point is true?"
Surely it would be easy enough to go to Xinjiang and verify it, since there's no travel restrictions and they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught making shit up.
You can find videos of the outside of the camps on youtube, but checkpoints are numerous and photography is prohibited in many areas according to a lot of the videos out there. The people who post them do also seem to suddenly develop new issues with their credibility after they post them, but really if you aren't going to trust the first hand accounts from the people being oppressed, then I don't think it's worth you looking into it.
You can still just look at the camps if you want though, these images aren't exactly unique:
https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/?
Removed for genocide denial.
Article 2 of the UN's Genocide Convention defines it like this:
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
"Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
a) Killing members of the group;
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Note: "Any of the following acts". Israel is now 5 for 5.
So by that definition palestine committed genocide against Israelis on Oct 7th?
I guess in a way, yes. But there is more context about the oppressed and the oppressors needed imo.
Well when do you start? When the Romans oppressed the Jewish people and conquered Jerusalem in 70A.D?
To add insult to injury, they gave Judea the name of Israel’s ancient enemy, the Philistines. The Arabic form of the name is Palestine.
Both sides have been the oppressors at one point or another, fighting over their perceived holy land.
what's the logical conclusion of your point here?
cool, i'm going to go to your house and squat in your backyard with a questionable document that says i have the right to be there. then, i'll start expanding into the structure of your home by destroying key areas. then, i'll start taping out walkways through your home you will not be allowed to use. if any member of your family attempts to stop this i will use my extensive military might to kill them.
this process will continue many decades. feel free to go with the flow.
you can keep self sucking all you want; it's a genocide. eat me.
glug glug
They're going after Hamas and there's been collateral damage, such happens in every war. If they wanted to commit genocide, why wouldn't they just carpet bomb the place instead of sending in leaflets to warn people to leave and even risk the lives of their own troops? By your definition, Hamas is also committing genocide against the Israelis.
Sorry, "collateral damage" wasn't a good enough excuse for the US military and it's definitely not a good enough excuse for the Israeli military either. The US struck a hospital in Kunduz fully aware of what it was and it caused enough of an incident that several coalition nations pulled out of Afghanistan rather than be involved. The US very nearly lost a LOT of its allies over that, and that was AFTER extensive investigation and compensation. Why should we hold Israel, a first-world military by any metric, to a lower standard than how we hold our own army?
If you see a hospital is being used as a military staging area, you don't just level the goddamn place. You don't say "well they COULD HAVE been there" (by the way, that's the exact same justification for the Kunduz airstrike). You don't look at it and say "well collateral damage and all". You rework your plan. You find a way to minimize casualties, whether that's a strike team or simply bypassing that target entirely because it's way too risky to civilians. It's a HOSPITAL, you can't say "you need to evac because we're bombing this place" - there are people who are too sick to move, equipment that CAN'T, and it'd be a huge operation to move everyone in a hospital on 24 hours' notice.
As to "why aren't they just carpet bombing the place", it's because half of the reason for this genocide is lebensraum - you'll notice that there's been a decent number of Israeli real estate firms that have caught flak for selling land in newly-emptied Gaza areas.