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this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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Public Freakout
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I think abortion will be treated much like slavery in the future. People will look back at past atrocities and ask "how did people think it was okay to kill babies that inconvenience them?". It will be as bizarre if not moreso than owning a slave.
I agree with you, except it will be the opposite. "How did people think it was okay to force women into this with no choice? Even at the risk of their own lives in a country with a high maternal mortality rate."
"How can they have freedom be one of their foundational guides, but think restrictions on what women do with their bodies is alright?"
A small cluster of cells is not yet a baby.
Not to mention that childbirth can be deadly for either party involved on a good day. It's naive to think that every fetus is going to come into the world alive. I have personally known people who aborted a fetus that they desperately wanted because it was essentially non-viable, and not worth the risk to the mother. They later had several other healthy children, who would not have existed had that aborted birth been traumatic enough.
Humans deserve rights. One of those rights is NOT to use other people's bodies though.
If I'm dying of kidney failure I don't get to force you to donate your kidneys to me. Quite the opposite, thanks to bodily autonomy. That thing you hate when it applies to other people.
False equivalence.
How. I woman being forced to carry a child to term appears to me to be the same as you being forced to donate a kidney. They both involve involuntary use of a body for someone else's benefit.
It’s actually an incredibly relevant and appropriate equivalence, since restricting access to abortion care means endangering women’s lives in cases where the pregnancy is non-viable or there are other serious complications to the pregnancy.
They are fucking clumps of cells and fetuses, not babies. The to-be-mother is a fucking adult human (and only a child in some cases) with fully grown nerves cells and developed emotions.
So a woman has to carry a dead fetus full term because it somehow has rights?!
Why don’t we put them in artificial wombs at the expense of the state and create a child army? Then when they age out of the military they can have full citizenship! /s
We're not talking about babies. During the first trimester, when most elective abortions occur, that "baby" is the size of a grape, and barely has the beginning of organs. It can't think or feel, let alone experience consciousness.
Your attempts at trying to paint abortion as killing an actual infant is disgusting.
How often does this happen in America? How many abortions are performed where a fully viable fetus is removed in pieces?
We should just give Americans complimentary abortions if they travel overseas. Pretty sure it wouldn't be too much of a dent to global public healthcare systems.
"In the United States, more than one half of pregnancies are unintended, with 3 in 10 women having an abortion by age 45 years 1. In 2008, 1.2 million abortions occurred in the United States, of which 6.2% took place between 13 weeks of gestation and 15 weeks of gestation, and 4.0% took place at 16 weeks of gestation or later 2 3. Only 1.3% of abortions are performed at 21 weeks of gestation or later."
From a quick Google search, so 1.3% of the 1.2 million 2008 abortions would be 15,600. Viability is generally ranged around 20+ weeks, I think google says 24ish, some premature babies are born earlier but are significantly more rare the further you get away from 20+ weeks.
Late-term abortions are nearly always due to serious complications that endanger both mother and fetus, or in cases where the fetus is already non-viable or braindead. You are proposing forcing mothers to risk their lives to give birth to dead fetuses. Educate yourself instead of parroting conservative propaganda.
The vast majority of those abortions performed after 21 weeks are due to medical issues and fetal non-viability. Women who make it to 20+ weeks of pregnancy virtually always want the baby, and an abortion is an incredibly sad and heartbreaking medical necessity at that point. I know someone who had to have a later abortion of a very much wanted child because the fetus didn't develop a brain.
You didn't answer what they asked. They asked how often is a baby killed right in the moment before birth. I think this is a bit of disconnect when thinking about what abortion is. Abortion is ending pregnancy. If a woman is giving birth, the pregnancy is ending. There's no "abortion" how you're thinking about it.
The abortions after 20 weeks are for the fetuses that have severe defects that we can't detect before the anatomy scan. With our current technology we cannot detect these defects before 20 weeks. It's impossible. These fetuses are the ones who don't have a brain, whose brain stems are exposed, whose organs fused with the placenta, whose hearts never develop, etc. There's not many of each type of deformity, but when you add them up, they account for "late term abortions". And just as an fyi that is not a medical term. It's a political one.
Speaking as a female…no1curr.
The fact that you think abortion is about inconvenienced people shows your naïveté.
No, what will actually happen is they will wonder how people could ever mistake a clump of cells as a baby and force women to carry a child they don't want.
How did people think it was okay to force 13 year olds to give birth to rape babies? How did people think it was okay to force a woman to give birth to the corpse of her already confirmed dead child or carry her dead child until it rotted inside her? How did people think it was okay to let women go to jail for having a miscarriage? How did people value a bundle of formless non-sentient cells more than rape victims or children or even just women in general who deserve autonomy and respect? How did people understand why it was wrong to force someone to donate their organs without consent, and yet still tried to force women to donate their wombs and in some cases their lives without their consent?
Oh yeah, because they were fucking idiots, like you.
I'm going to presume that you're confused rather than lying.
NOBODY thinks "it's okay to kill babies."
The reality is that those who support a right to abortion do not believe that fetuses qualify as "babies" at all. In their opinion, a fetus is at most a potential person - not an actual person.
Yes - I understand that that's not your position, and I'm sure you have lots of what you believe to be compelling arguments to support your view that fetuses docqualify as "babies," but that's explicitly NOT the position of people who support a right to abortion.
So when you characterize the pro-choice position as one that asserts that "it's okay to kill babies," you're at the very least misrepresenting what they actually believe.
I presume you consider yourself to be a moral person, so you should likely ask yourself - just how moral is your position, really, if you feel compelled to lie and misrepresent the views of those who disagree?
A failure to understand or believe that abortion is murder does not make it no long a murder. For the people that believe Jews deserve to die their opinion does not change the fact that the holocaust was genocide. I also said "in the future" since, much like slavery was accepted in the past, I believe our understanding of human life will undergo change and abortion will be viewed as a murder of innocents.
How many children do you foster? How many have you adopted? 3, 4, 10, 100?
So far, you have managed to involve slavery and holocaust into (apparently) a conversation about abortion.
Do you think you can top it off?
Day is young...
Presuming, for the sake of argument, that the consensus in the future comes to be that it is in fact murder, then yes - it's rightly labeled "murder" regardless of the view one might hold.
But that's beside my point.
To carry on with this particular context, what you're asserting is that those who support a right to abortion believe that murder is okay, which is very much NOT what they in fact believe. They believe that it does not qualify as "murder" at all.
So again, you're misrepresenting what they actually believe, and doing so in order to saddle them with a moral position they do not in fact hold, snd that dishonesty, in my estimation, calls into question the notion that you actually are a moral person.
Oh, and for the record, I think you're wrong anyway. I think that when all of the reactionary, emotional fervor dies down and cooler heads prevail, the beginning of human life will be defined by the exact same thing that's already the accepted marker for the end of human life - the presence or absence of measurable cortical activity.
And curiously enough, cortical activity can only be detected in fetuses well into the second trimester.
Let me fix this for you.
"How did we create a society with so little support for mothers that some had abortions for financial or lack-of-support reasons?"
That's the real tragedy. If a woman doesn't want a baby, then she's going to be a horrible mom and raise a horrible person. Those people can have abortions all day and night for all I care. But the women who might want one, but can't afford it, but don't feel safe in their own home, that's society failing.
Hopefully in ghe future the need for abortions is close to zero becuase of better education, birth control and standard of living.
But today it is better to have abortions than put people into this world when nobody is going to take care of them the way they need.
I think they will look back at this time and think "how sad that they did not have the tools and care needed to avoid abortions".
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate the opportunity to block your account.
It’s funny since I just learned how to block a user after viewing the Big Toe comments. The troll drove me to figure out that feature. So at least something good came out of it.
While I completely disagree with his opinion on abortion I think that's all it is. This doesn't appear like trolling at all. It seems almost as irritating as the pro liver to block anyone you disagree with and call them a troll on top of it.
No, he’s def a troll 🙄
I'd like to think that, in the future, people would realize most if not all anti-abortion activists were low information and largely indoctrinated. When you actually understand the science behind reproduction, it's really hard to look at a blob of cells that's frequently lost without human intervention anyhow as a "baby".
And this, yet again, is why science education, REAL science education, is so important.
The vast majority of abortions, like 99.9%, are either for medical reasons or sexual assault. The conservative hegemony has done an excellent job of brainwashing people like yourself into believing the opposite. I can't even imagine the horror that rape victims go through when being forced to give birth to a constant reminder of the unbelievable hell that they endured.
Whenever these two reasons (medical and rape) are brought up to abortion opponents, they all seem to be ok with terminating pregnancies as these are acceptable exceptions.
I think rather they would look back and wonder how we failed so badly at education to result in comments such as yours to get to the point where we allowed risking a woman's life for dead clump of cells.