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Why do they say "there's no true Left in the US"?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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One death from left wing extremism in 25 years, versus 329 from the right, 32900% more. To say that this is the "same shit" is clearly absurd. We aren't discussing the merits of the middle ground. You seem to be suggesting that just because something is labelled as "extremist" it is automatically bad, regardless of what it actually is or what harm it causes.
Extremes are all relative, no? The political views that are centrist today would be extreme 100 years ago. Just saying they're extreme and therefore bad is a weak argument.
Sure there are bigots on both sides, there are bigots outside the extremes too. There are centrist bigots! There, now I've shown that extremism is just the same as centrism... Obviously that doesn't work, though, does it? You can't just pick one thing that happens and say "well everyone does this so they're all the same"... Does it happen to the same degree? What are it's consequences?
I think you'll find significantly more racism, sexism, etc on the right... Far right extenists are literal Nazis and white supremacists! Feminism, the civil rights movement, pride movement, etc, are all left-aligned... Extremist leftists sometimes lose sight of one aspect of this, but they so obviously aren't the same as literal fucking Nazis!
What are you talking about? Nazism is a fundamentally right-aligned ideology, how can you argue otherwise? You can invent definitions of what "left" or "right" means to suit you if you want, but why bother saying anything if you're going to make up the meanings of words?
Can you tell me what a "leftist" is? Or what they might want for the world? Can you tell me what a Nazi is? And then why you think there are parallels?
I just don't believe that anyone who understands what these words mean would think they are alike.
If someone is behaving like a nazi they aren't a left wing extremist. The OG Nazis called themselves socialists - but they were not socialists, were they? They were fascists.
Can you show me any of these extremists who you think are both on the left and Nazis? And explain why you think they are both of those things?
And to be clear - I am not calling all right wing extremists Nazis. All Nazis are right wing extremists, not all right wing extremists are Nazis. You seem to be content to throw the word around for anyone who you disagree with, but it is in fact a word that represents a specific political ideology which occupies a particular place on the spectrum.
What is "behaving like a nazi" to you? Are these trans activists advocating the extermination of the Jews? No? Then they probably aren't fucking Nazis are they.
It's hilarious that you're accusing trans activists of "labelling anyone who disagrees with them" as teansphobes... While yourself labelling anyone you disagree with a nazi, with no regard to what the word actually means!
Please, define what Nazi means to you, because otherwise this conversation is pointless.
Edit to add: and seriously, to you "trans women are women" is the same level as "we should exterminate the Jews"? What the fuck dude?
I would define a Nazi as someone who follows or supports the socio-political ideology Nazism - to quote Wikipedia:
I would also include neo-Nazis who, again quoting Wiki:
I will grant you that some people use the word in a much weaker way (see "grammar nazi"), which I find frustrating but I have to acknowledge is a modern usage... but not the one I have been using in this conversation.
I'm not sure what you're asking here. Are you suggesting that modern leftists are fascists?
The origin of this conversation was the your idea that left- and right-wing extremism is the same. My position is they are different. I'm not saying that people on the far left don't do some of the things that the Nazis did. It would be impossible, really, I mean they also built roads but I'm not about to call civil engineers Nazis. Looking at modern (i.e. neo-) Nazis, my point is that they are not comparable to left-wing extremists around today. Their views are not similar, their goals are not similar, their methods are not similar. Can you find a racist leftist? Of course. Can you find a non-racist Nazi? No.
I'll stop using Nazis or neo-Nazis as examples, though, because it's clearly not helpful. Consider white supremacists, instead, if that helps.
Going back to the other commenter who shared the blog post - we see that far right extremism is responsible for >90% of extremist murders in the US in recent years. Clearly far left extremism cannot compete! The trans activists you mentioned earlier, are they similar? Are they going out and killing people? I glossed over it before but your point was that they "label" anyone who "disagrees with them" as a transphobe... Even if you disagree with that label, it hardly seems comparable to killing people. ___
The extremes are different, the behaviours are different... wildly so! One extreme involves advocating for the extermination of entire peoples, while the best example of the other extreme you can come up with so far is accusing people of transphobia! How can you think these are the same? And they "drive" people to obviously very different ends, too! The far right version of "behaving badly" is fucking murdering people, while the far left version is apparently being mean to you on the internet.
Please, provide an example of leftists actually doing something you think is as bad as killing people, or advocating genocide. Otherwise it seems like you are the apologist - and you aren't just an apologist of some nebulous group who you won't define, as you accused me of, you are actually being an apologist for far right child murderers. Because by comparing the far right's crimes to something as people on the internet policing language you are minimising those crimes, and that is a disservice to the victims of those crimes.
Antifa might be violent, but they are violent in their opposition to violent ideologies, not to random members of the public. Aaron Danielson, I'll take a guess, is the single example of someone actually being killed by a far left terrorist in the US in a 25 year period, mentioned by the earlier commenter.
Sure, I mean Pol Pot was a communist, he killed loads of people in Cambodia in the 1970s. But today? There is objective evidence that the far right is worse!
I'm trying to convince you, and anyone reading this, that the left is not the same as the right. If you can't see that, well that's on you. You have been deluded by the right. You think you're in the middle, but you aren't. You are sitting with and minimising the abundant actual crimes of racists and bigots by trying to equate them with trivial internet bullshit and a single solitary actual murder.
Hahahah, the left is getting more reasonable with time, not less! I mean, I refer again to Pol Pot, do you see anyone like that on the left today? Nowadays the right are just getting more sensitive, and people like you are whining because you aren't allowed to be transphobic without people being mean to you and hurting your feelings. Get a grip.
"Extremism" doesn't inherently mean "violent." Equating those with far-left views with "bad and violent" views is unsubstantiated.
Every single claim you've made, that extremism is bad because it drives people to "behave badly" is unsubstantiated. You're arguing off of vibes alone.
The two extremes are not "equally bad." On the far-right, you have genocide and ethno-states under brutal fascist rule, on the far left you have a stateless, classless, moneyless society.
I'm a left-wing extremist and believe absolutely nothing that you've invented for left-wing extremists.
Just keep making shit up 👍
Who all is arguing in support of Left-Wing extremism? Other than select instances, most users on lemmy do not by any means support tankies. I for one can't stand them.
They can be just as out of touch with reality as a MAGA extremist, but to say both sides are the same is blatantly false. Far-Right extremism is spreading across the globe and it threatens and takes lives and destroys family systems.
"I agree, this fascist ploy that removed fundamental rights from dozens of millions of women is dangeroous! But have you considered this scenario I imagined that impacted nobody irl? Totally the same!"
Left wing extremism is better because it's morally correct.
If you can understand that extremism isn't inherently good or bad, what matters is what's correct, why do you have to lie and pretend the left supports racism, discriminatuon, ostracism, and bigotry when the extreme left combats those as foundation?
This is a mind-numbing take only possible by a privledged person who has never spoken to a leftist, only heard about them through Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, and Ben Shapiro.
You are right-wing, so that's true. You've also been repeating LibsOfTikTok-style lies about the left "transing kids," which is debunked nonsense, and is in fact transphobic to peddle. I haven't seen any homophobia from you yet, but the other 2 are correct.
Extremism is not good or bad, just like being in the middle is not good or bad either. What matters is what's correct.
For example, between being pro-fascism and anti-fascism, anti-fascism is both extreme and correct.
I don't preach, I'm not religious. You're now putting words directly in my mouth because that's all you've done from the start: lie about fake leftists that hurt your feelings.