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Israeli forces kill, wound Palestinians waiting for food aid in Gaza
(www.aljazeera.com)
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this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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Honestly, like 99% of Americans don't care about Gaza enough to not vote for Biden over Trump. The internet echo chamber has warped your sense of what normal people actually care about.
Uh... No? Polls have consistently shown that Biden is losing younger voters over this issue. And let's not forget that there are multiple swing states (Michigan is just the most famous one) where losing Muslim votes is enough to cost Biden the state. Enough Americans care about Gaza to cost Biden the election.
You mean the arab/muslim population screaming "gas the jews"?
Not an american, so I don't watch Fox News
Very transparent attempts at invalidating the feelings of the people literally having their families murdered you piece of shit.
After Palestine attacked, raped and killed more than 1200 israelis, 7th October?
Israel didn't start this
>Israel didn’t start this
this didn't start october 7
And your point? Being "oppressed" gives you the right to rape and kill innocent civillians? Sure it didn't start 7th October. Israel has been attacked multiple times before, as well, with the goal of exterminating Israel as a state. Of course they have to defend themselves
>Being “oppressed” gives you the right to rape and kill innocent civillians?
that didn't happen
What didn't happen? There's countless evidence
all the rape accusations i've heard have been dubious at best. much of it hearsay. what evidence do you have?
as for the killing, i'm sure some of that happened, but i'm also sure that there weren't any hamas members flying apaches that day, so i won't be attributing any numbers until there is some sort of verification of who was killed by israeli occupation forces and who was killed by hamas.
>Of course they have to defend themselves
this is a defense. it's a genocide in a ghetto.
It's not a genocide. It's a very bloody war, to get rid of Hamas. A genocide is what happened to the jews in ww2. This can't be compared
> A genocide is what happened to the jews in ww2. This can’t be compared
it absolutely can be, since it's the systematic murder of an ethnic minority by a fascist ethnostate.
Palestine is much more of an ethnostate than Israel. There's about 2,1 million arabs living in Israel. Out of 9,8 million inhabitants, that's pretty significant
As for the systematic murder, it's not. They're getting rid of Hamas, not all palestinians. Yes there's a lot of collateral due to Hamas using them as human shields, and due to it being a dense urban environement
>Yes there’s a lot of collateral due to Hamas using them as human shields
there is a sure way to avoid "collateral".
palestine isn't a state. it's a ghetto.
>After Palestine attacked, raped and killed more than 1200 israelis, 7th October?
that didn't happen
What didn't happen?
palestine didn't attack, hamas did.
all the claims of rape lack substantive evidence.
many of those killed were killed by israeli occupation forces.
Dude. Claiming Hamas didn't rape? Come on...
https://youtu.be/6FVUxvp6Ah0
that's hostage-taking, not rape.
She's extremely likely to have been raped, if you look at her back. They're not even trying to hide it. The likelyhood of them having raped a large number of palestinians, is so likely, not even the bigges Palestine-supporters generally deny it. But appearently you still do
if it were so obviously true, there would be more proof than your conjecture about a 10 second video that doesn't even depict a rape.
this is conjecture.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/6FVUxvp6Ah0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Weak
17 million people died in the holocaust. IRC the population of Gaza is roughly 2.4 million of which just over 1% have died. That figure includes Hamas militants. The Gaza Health Ministry does not distinguish between combatant and civilian casualties in its reports.
It is possible to criticize and condemn Israeli war crimes and ethnic cleansing, which are without doubt horrific, without distorting the facts.
In fact, it actually makes your criticism more convincing and harder to discount by supporters of the current hard right Israeli government. The fediverse is a bubble on this conflict, but we should be aware that hyperbole does not serve the interests of the Palestinian cause or win the argument outside of this bubble.
Maybe you'll be the exception, but I say this knowing full well that some will call me pro-Israel for this comment. But if anything these extremists are useful idiots for Israel's far right government and its supporters, as they allow them to paint any criticism as anti-semitism or disingenious.
e: this comment already had downvotes within seconds of me posting it. This is not long enough to finishing reading it...
The comment I replied to said:
30,000 people have died. 17 million people died in the holocaust. That is not on the same level and it is not on the same scale. 30,000 is a significantly smaller number than 17 million.
If you support the Palestinian cause, pretending otherwise is a home goal.
I get that it feels right, because people are understandably angry about all this, but it's not a winning argument. Quite the opposite. If you're provably exaggerating the scale of what's happening, it allows supporters of Israel's far right government to sow doubt and claim you might also be exaggerating about the very very real war crimes and ethnic cleansing they are engaged in.
Your comment above:
Maybe you misunderstood my criticism, but I wasn't disputing that what was happening was genocide or ethnic cleansing. I was disputing the level or scale of what was happening. Clearly what is happening in Gaza (and the West Bank) is on a smaller scale. 17 million vs. 30,000 in Gaza.
This doesn't make what is happening ok. It just means that it is on a smaller scale than the holocaust.
This is not another argument. The number of casualties was my argument from the beginning. The number of casualties may not have been your point, but it was mine when you said that what was happening was on the same level or scale as the holocaust.
This is also not a strawman argument. I am literally adressing something you said in your comment.
On a more general note, this is why comparisons to the Nazis or the Holocaust are rarely helpful, and partly why Godwin's law is a thing.
For example, just because someone isn't Adolf Hitler or a Nazi, doesn't mean they're not a fascist. Calling someone like Ben Gvir or Smotrich a Nazi might feel good, but it allows them to say "Aha! But I don't believe x, y, z. Also, the Nazis hated Jews. I'm a Jew. So you're wrong." It undermines your argument, even if they are quite similar to Nazis. Call them a fascist or racial supremacist, based on things that they actually said and did, and it's far harder to deny.
Yeah bro...
The only reason to be upset with Biden is his support of Israel's genocide...
/s
There's also:
What he wants to do with our border
Pretending "the economy" is more about billionaires wealth and average Americans aren't important
Record breaking fossil fuels production
Just ignoring the healthcare crisis
And a shit ton of other things.
Supporting Israel could very well be all you care about, but lots of people aren't that simple.
Trump is worse on all of those issues, plus more.
If you get to pick between no food, or half enough food to survive...
How much effort would you put in to starve to death slower?
Running a bad candidate depresses turnout. And depressed turnout is the only way Republicans win.
Running Joe Biden is the biggest factor that helps Trump's chances of winning, and there's zero fucking reason we're handing it to him.
The vast majority of people will choose half food for the chance to live until more food is available. There is not another candidate from the Dems that has the national recognition as Biden, or the successes that Biden should be doing a better job of selling, that could take his place at this point in time.
Yes, I would rather they ran someone else. But with half the voting population all in on wish.com Hitler it is necessary to eat half the food now and hope for a better candidate next time.
Except we only get a presidential election every four years, and not everyone will still be alive then
That's not even part of the starvation example.
Literally people you're asking to pick the lesser evil right now will die because of that lesser evil before the 2028 election.
Maybe you're upper middle class and it's not a big deal.
Congrats, you're a very small percentage of Americans and the total votes Biden needs to win.
If you want to help Biden, try having some empathy for the less fortunate and start screaming your head off at the Dem party while there's time.
We should absolutely give Biden grief up until November when we need to grit our teeth and accept aomething less than perfection to vote against the Republicans who are worse on every single topic.
It isn't like Biden is the only Democrat who is supporting Israel. How many Dems are passing the funding legislation that Biden signs? Who are they going to put up instead of him that opposes Israel?
Nobody.
Biden is the best that the party can put forth right now, and we should give him grief to get him to change. The action agsinst Biden in the primaries is great!
But come November it will be critical to vote against Trump, and a vote for anything other than a Democrat is a vote for Trump because of our stupid voting system.
C'mon man...
The DNC blacklists companies for working on primary campaigns against House incumbents...
They straight up removed delegates from the first state primary because in the last two elections they picked progressives over party favorites...
"Just vote in the primaries" is about a decade outdated at the point.
I'll probably still vote D in the general, just like I've held my nose to do in all but a single general election. 08 Obama I was actually hype to vote D, and we flipped a bunch of red states the DNC gave up on
But not everyone will this year, and Biden doesn't have a lot of breathing room.
The best thing you can do to prevent trump from winning is do anything you can think of to drag Biden to the left.
Just shutting up and voting Biden isn't enough, he's too weak of a candidate to expect that to work again.
I'm voting Biden, but every time they ask me for money I'm telling them no and I'm telling them why. And they ask me for money A LOT.
I replied to one text explaining how I can't trust the DNC after the 2016 "donor sharing" and the NH primary was cancelled, so I'd only give directly to progressive candidates.
I was just venting, but it worked.
Haven't got a single email/text asking for money again and it's been a couple months.
Which honestly, is concerning.
Getting big 2016 Hillary "if you don't already love me, fuck you I don't need your vote" vibes.
Last time Dems used that strategy, we got stuck with trump for four years. And Biden himself has always had a habit of lashing out when people don't bow to him. It's what crashed his 1988 primary and stopped him from running for president for 20 years until Republicans lowered the bar enough on what was acceptable behavior from a presidential candidate.
Back then lying about plagiarizing speeches, law school grades, and screaming at reporters about how much smarter you are was disqualifying.
I remember 1988... it was the plagiarism that killed it back then... and we ended up with Dukakis (sigh).
Edited:
Whoops, Mondale was 84 and not as progressive as I thought.
His dad was the Mondale that kept pushing the New Deal, this Mondale was already wanting to drag the party right.
Zero idea why I saw Dukakis and my brain jumped to Mondale
Ok