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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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Really? Trump mentioning that most nato members do not meet the required defense spending undermines nato.
Yeah I'm sure that was what undermined nato and not the fact that America is the only threatening part of nato and the rest of the members haven't been contributing shit. I don't like trump but it's clear that nato needs a kick up the ass.
You know how this isn’t 2015 right? People are no longer fooled by you guys creating accounts to concern troll.
It's gotten real damn bad in the last week
lol. Yeah I’m surprised he didn’t lead with “I used to be a Democrat…”
"Everyone who pushes back is troll". Ok since this is such obvious trolling you should be able to give a good reason as to why comments from a presidential candidate undermines a 31 country military alliance more than 27 countries in (2017) and 21 countries in (2023) not meeting the minimum contribution requirements.
Please keep in mind that the nato member in this article who made the comments about trump does believe that the us will remain a committed nato ally regardless of election outcome.
That's not what he said though
If you have to misrepresent what was said in order to feel ok about it, maybe you shouldn't feel ok about it.
Found the person living in an alternate reality.
Wake me up if you actually wanted to have a good faith discussion otherwise take your ignorance of geopolitics elsewhere.
While I highly doubt you have anything interesting or realistic to say on this issue my comments are in good faith if you want to discuss where we disagree. I've replied to a few other comments if you want to read over them for more explanation of my reasoning.
You are taking the the quote out of context. Yes he said exactly what was in the quote but the seriousness portrayed by this article was not there.
Do you honestly think the US and nato would let Russia invade a nato country? Because even the head of Nato doesn't think that would happen and the article mentions that. The only person saying that would happen is Biden and he is only saying it because it's great for his election run.
The article mentions the clear "hardball" approach that trump is taking to try and force nato members to pull their weight. Everyone in this comment section seems to be ignoring that and ignoring the comments from the head of Nato and taking trumps words as a binding contract. It's already clear from trumps existence that he says unhinged shit, I don't think we have any disagreements there. The disagreement I have with this article is the hypocrisy of saying Nato is undermined by trumps comments when majority of the members are freeloading with no intentions of meeting the requirements. The majority of nato members being useless has become such an issue that presidential candidates are running on the issue.
So you basically admit "if at any part a country hasn't reached the obligated 2% they shouldn't be defended by nato"?
It wouldn't be a problem if it were a few countries but it's almost all of them.
Not what I asked. You agree with Trump, which means you agree with what I asked you. Any nuanced opinion saying "countries might need to contribute more" aren't what he said.
Yes I agree that countries that don't meet the 2% shouldn't be in nato. People could let it slide if it were a few countries but it's majority of nato and the countries can clearly afford it.
Tell me why the us should continue to meet its nato obligations when none of the other members do?
Yeah, so you are just plain wrong and don't know what you are talking about.
Let me guess: you “used to be a Democrat but…”
LOL.
I hate this sentiment of "you don't agree with us on every issue.. you must be on the other side"
This is a discussion forum.
Your opinion is so out of the realm of reality that many are questioning your intentions here, including myself. Maybe start with a comment that has some geopolitical accuracy.
Many people including yourself are uninformed and swayed by headlines.
lmao. Read the room bra. No one here is buying your delusional bullshit. I’m not swayed by “headlines” I’m actually, you know, listening to the words that come out of the orange shitstain’s mouth. Please continue to waste your time responding though. It’s not like you have the self awareness to believe no one here agrees with you.
Everyone here can disagree with me and be wrong. That's fine. I'm sure Russia was waiting for the green light from a non president trump to invade nato countries and now they have it according to you. It's over for nato I guess.
Obviously you’re looking for an echo chamber, which you will not find here. You should go back to Fox News, OANN or whatever other shitty propaganda source that feeds your biases.
Yes I'm on a very leftwing forum looking for a rightwing echo chamber. What a great observation.
If you want to read comment sections where everyone agrees with the headline and never pushes back on anything you are welcome to block me.
As a member of a NATO military that doesn't meet the targets for spending, I agree this doesn't undermine NATO, it's just the truth that we need to start pulling more weight monetarily.
BUT that's not the point and you missed key details about what he said that absolutely DOES undermine NATO, such as:
"I said: 'You didn't pay? You're delinquent?'... 'No I would not protect you, in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want. You gotta pay.'"
So you're showing that you either didn't read the article, didn't understand the article or are being willfully ignorant of the article.
You dont think Nato members not ever meeting spending targets undermines NATO? Europe would be able to protect themselves if they met the targets and the US would be a bonus to NATO not a requirement.
I think that comment does far less damage to NATO than the members who do not meet minimum requirements. The US has been trying to get Nato to contribute to their own security for a long time. Trumps plan to get this done has been to threaten Nato members with removal of US security. This seems to have worked better than other methods tried. Trump is not saying this to encourage russia to attack Nato, trump is saying this to force Nato members to meet their obligations.
I do not understand how you can look a nation asking the US to defend them for free and the US saying no and think that the US is one putting them at risk. They put themself at risk because they choose to spend no money on defense obligations.
Literally in the Trump quote:
You see, Trump never means what he says. It's all 5d chess and you don't know how to interpret all that vagueness.
To understand why it is not a call for russia to attack nato you must know the context. In the clip Trump mentions Nato being broken before he "fixed" it. In 2016 only 5 countries met the minimum nato obligations (US, UK, Greece, estonia, Poland).
Trump recalls a conversation he had with a Nato leader. He says the leader asked him "if we dont pay are you still going to protect us" trump replied "absolutely not". This is a huge shock to the nato leaders as America has always asked them to pay but never forced their hand like this. They ask again "if we dont pay and we are attacked by Russia will you still protect us?" then you get the harsher response from trump.
Europe is vulnerable to an attack from Russia they know this. They MUST meet their alliance obligations to ensure their security its that simple. Trump is telling the European leader this to scare them into meeting their obligations. Russia didnt hear about this until trump mentioned it at his rally a few days ago. After all this happened years ago the Nato contribution increased and states meeting their obligation goes from 5 to 11.
Please explain to me how that is trump inviting war? Trump isnt asking Nato to freeload. He is asking them to meet their obligations and remain in the alliance with the US.
Sure, when Trump says:
"Them" is Russia, and "whatever they want" is to invade. So Trump is saying "I would encourage {Russia] to [Invade]."
I'm not going along with your "he doesn't mean what he says" BS. He is running for government office, if he doesn't mean what he's saying then he shouldn't say it. I'm not going to play "guess what the politician really means when they say something. Maybe they mean the opposite. who knows?"
Trump is for peace in Ukraine! Democrats are warheads and genocide helpers. Nobody needs.
NATO empowered nazis in western europe. If our politics were not manipulated by the United States I am not sure we'd be allies.