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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023
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No Stupid Questions
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So I am a researcher by trade in this field, got a PhD, and develop these kinds of stats (at a more local level). I also have taught basic adult literacy for about 15 years. I think the poster was likely referring to an NCES stat.
We tend to think of adults with low English literacy as people who dropped out of school or never went. We also tend to think "illiterate" is binary, you can read or you can't. But the definition is based around grade-level reading (what can you identify and synthesize from standardized text in English in a given time frame) and inclusive of a broader population. We're talking about people who can't pick up a copy of USA today and tell you the main idea of a front-page article. They can drive, they can work, etc. So they get along and this issue get ignored.
For example, some stats on illiteracy will count "non-participants" among those who can't read/write, but this includes people in the study with cognitive disabilities or language barriers to the point that they can't take the reading test. The share of U.S. adults who are functionally illiterate in English includes some non-native English speaking adults and also a couple generations of folks with reading diasbilities who passed through school, AND people who didn't read for myriad other reasons.
I have tutored older adults learning to read/write for many years and have met a lot of people who ran businesses or raised families or worked full careers before learning to read. Adaptable and clever bunch. And even many U.S.-born native English speakers who got shuffled through high school despite serious disadvantage and/or disabilities.
Thanks! Suddenly America makes a lot of sense now.
Purely anecdotal, but I know someone who is a tenured professor at a university that will flat out refuse to answer any question that has too much supporting detail around it. As in, if you say "for this part of the assignment, I'm doing..." and proceed to describe your attempt at problem solving over four or five sentences, asking if what you've done is correct or close to it, and he will simply respond with "there's too much here to unpack, sorry," and refuse to answer the question. But if you do it in person, like verbally read out the same paragraph you wrote, he can understand and answer it. There's other things, too. He can type out simple sentences, but has a very poor grasp of spelling, frequently getting very simple words wrong (think different versions of there, their, and they're). It's genuinely baffling how he got to that point, but he also hasn't ever really published material and it kinda makes sense why. Dude has a doctorate in a STEM field and I think the reason for that is that he can understand mathematics, but literally can't understand complex writing. Any idea that takes more than a single sentence to explicate just evaporates out of his head.
I’ve never seen anything as extreme as you describe, but when I took the GRE I met a guy kind of like this. After you finish the exam it gives you an estimate of your score, but your real scores are sent to you weeks later. On the way out some guy asked me how I did (fairly well but not 97% plus on anything). He was like “oh damn if you don’t get above 95% on math then you can’t go to grad school in STEM lol”. I asked him what he got in the reading and writing and he said <33% “but that isn’t important for grad school” lmao
I do have to wonder how he ever got through his doctorate. Reading is like the second most important skill for physicists, and writing isn't too far down the list either. Maybe it's different for mathematicians and/or other stem fields, but unless he's a super-genius, he'd be confronted to the need to read articles/material at some point, no?
Sounds like dyslexia
Very interesting read! I’m from Germany and taught myself English. I’m currently at a C1/B2 level (it’s a European standard I think?) and consider myself good enough to move through English speaking countries independently just fine.
I’m basically studying English every day by reading and watching YouTube exclusively in English. Love it!
It’s a shame that many people don’t bother honing their language skills.
Didn't you have English classes at school? I have also significantly improved my English through English media such as reddit, youtube, movies, books etc. But I don't know if I would have been able to do that without learning basic English at school.
That's really impressive, I do wish I took learning another language more seriously when I was younger. Everyonce Ina while I try to dig back into it but lose motivation for one reason or another.
What did you find to be the most helpful starting out?
Thanks for the pointers! For context, English is my only language, but the premise applied to other languages is the same, so thanks!
With English, finding the motivation is easy, since pretty much all media, be it movies or games, is in English. I learned the basics in school, but most of my vocabulary is from games.
I have been thinking of learning fourth language, but it's hard to find a good enough reason for it. Maybe I should just change games to appropriate language? At least it would improve replayability, since 90% of the plot would be missed.
I feel like I'd like to hear stories about this. But I'm unsure what to ask for specifically.