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Why U.S. renters are taking corporate landlords to court
(www.cnbc.com)
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this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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RealPage is one of the great unrecognized villains of the modern age.
Fun story, a few years back I caught my landlord overbilling me on utilities. I said hey I did the math and you owe me back $X and I'm not paying any more utilities until that amount I'd been overpaying has been used up. My landlord used Realpage for billing, and Realpage said no that's not how it works, we'll get it corrected but you need to keep paying what's in the system or you'll be delinquent. I said go fuck yourself, I have no reason to trust that you and the landlord will adjust it accurately if I give you more money, I'm not obligated to wait until your system figures it out, your system is your problem, not mine. I plan to pay amounts I actually owe and not amounts I don't. They said you really have to. I said hey check it out I think I don't, let's see which one of us is right.
We went back and forth about it for quite some time, including me telling my bank not to accept withdrawals from RealPage (since they started charging me even with emails expressly explaining that they were not authorized to), which made them even more irritated at me and charging me extra fees. I said dude I am more than happy to explain this all to a judge if you want to go that route. They said you really have to pay though, we've worked out the overbill and corrected it but you still have late and returned-payment fees. I said we went over this, go fuck yourself, did I stutter.
When I moved out my landlord tried to not give me back my security deposit until RealPage was happy with my utilities balance. I waited 31 days and then sent them a formal notice that if they didn't return my security deposit I was within my rights to take them to court and get paid triple and planned to do so in 7 days. They said it had all been a big misunderstanding and was there really a need for all this and gave me back my security deposit.
Just talking about it now again makes me amped-up and irritated.
Good for you though, that was a satisfying read.
I mean I'm glad it worked out right in the end. At the time I was just pissed, though.
Also, holy shit, I went back to look up some of the saga in my old emails, and there were definitely parts that were entertaining that I'd totally forgotten about. If you liked reading the summary check this out -- this is a short excerpt from one of some very long email exchanges I had about the whole thing:
There's more, including me threatening to charge them a late fee for the time when they owed me money and weren't willing to credit it back to me, but that's as much as I had time to dig back up right now.
I 100% believe we should charge companies a fee for any mistakes they made that we had to spend time correcting.
I know banks do this in the UK if you complain and they're in the wront.
All companies should do this. Watch how fast they'd fix their shit when there's a fincial penny related to shit service.
"Corporations are people" in the U.S. when it comes to privileges, but never when it comes to penalties.
Wtf is a “card storage fee”?
Fuckin' don't get me started.
When I stopped the payment with my bank in January, their system refused to let me use ACH payments anymore, and said I had to put in a credit card number in order to even log in and see my balance and history. Okay, sure. I put in a credit card number for a cash card that didn't have any money on it.
Then, their system said that I couldn't remove my credit card number from their system without putting in some other payment method (which had to be another credit card). But, in order to have a card number stored in their system (which I couldn't remove), I had to pay a $4 per month credit card storage fee.
This was when I started just mailing them checks and researching lawyers in Texas so I could take them to small claims court. I also sent the whole thing with documentation to the FTC explaining it as succinctly as I could.
What I read “ … Texas …”. Ouch, sorry to read that. I doubt that is legal in other states (or rather I’m sure it’s illegal in some other states).
Every credit card number is engraved on a golden plate which is stored in a special nuclear war-proof bunker and guarded by men with automatic weapons and combat armor.
You can't expect all that for free.
No it wasn’t. He shoulda taken them to court sued and gotten on record this company acts this way so we hav precedent for this situation. In this story. No one wins. Company didn’t keep their security deposit and the renters time was wasted completely. No one won lol
They always say this after they try to get away with bullshit.
"We misunderstood that you would actually lawyer up. Our bad."
Not a landlord, but I had a similar excuse thrown at me by a dealership. Towed my car an hour for a recall to a college town because everywhere else was booked for a while. They did close to $1000 of unauthorized work and then threw a fit when I told them I would not be paying for it unless they could show me a signed document where I agreed. When they realized I wasn't a broke college kid after I threatened legal action and to report my car stolen if they were not willing to give it back, I got the "this was a misunderstanding, it never should have went this far" from the owner who had just called me a liar 10minutes prior. Such obvious BS
They, in this case, could refer to banks, other corporations, your boss, politicians, police officers, etc. Anyone in a position of authority will inevitably be tempted to abuse that authority, or at the very least assume that their understanding of the situation is superior to the understanding of those over whom They wield that power. When conflict arises, if you're correct regarding your rights, finances, etc., it's "just a big misunderstanding, and can't we all just get along?" But when They have the legal upper hand in a disagreement, They will fuck you with an iron bar and convince anyone watching that you are a deadbeat trying to pull one over on the rest of your fellow proletariats.
And meanwhile, guess who is constantly buying political influence to ensure they never lose the legal upper hand again?
The pandemic made me give up on working for other people, what I consider appropriate accommodation wasn't in line and being told to put myself in danger as if it was a normal job requirement I signed up for made it real clear how valued workers are.
That being said. The first two things a person should buy once striking out on their own are a lawyer and an accountant. Those two peeps know how the world REALLY works. Youre not going to build stability from a shaky foundation, that's just basic cause and effect y'know.
And having a lawyer on retainer is one of the best feelings in the world. It's fuck you money, but you only need enough $ to pay your guy, not a warehouse of pandemic pine
Which trade?
I'm assuming it's a trade, not many occupations put you in actual danger but are also ones you can strike out on your own. But I'll admit my knowledge is limited.
Here in Brazil it’s much simpler because when you rent a place, basic services like electricity and water are transferred to you. So you get the bills, not your landlord.
And services like internet, you hire your own instead of using the ISP hired by your landlord.
It isn't consistent in the US. Some landlords or properties include utilities in the price of rent, some don't. Some only include things like trash/water/sewer and it's up to you to source an electric/gas/internet provider.
USA landlords own the building so they get to say who your provider is and they will sometimes partner with a specific ISP and that is the only one you are allowed to use.
This....is not correct
EDIT: OK so clearly some landlord are dicks and are telling people whom they have to use. I can see it if it's included in the rent, but if not, I do not see how they could force someone. I am also not a lawyer and cannot speak the the legality of said practices. I have lived in a lot of apartments in a lot of places. Internet and electric have never been included in the rent,and I have never been told which provider I was required to use.
Okayyyyy, I'm sorry you believed what they told you,and maybe California has some crazy laws I'm not familiar with, but in Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Alaska at least, renters can choose from whatever electric or internet providers are available in the area.
It's crazy how there can be differing experiences in the same reality posted on the internet!
I've lived in three states and in two of them you're wrong. Landlords do shit and get away with it. Sometimes it's illegal but not always.
It is. Looked at an apartment yesterday who only provides Comcast as an ISP option and includes it mandatorily with rent payments. But sure be confidently incorrect
I've heard of just about any utility being included in rent and I've personally experienced a few of them being. Also it's pretty easy if you own a large apartment building to have a say-so over who installs shit in your building. It's all highly specific on the local context and how much of a greedy asshole the building owners are
That's usually the US system, but occasionally not. Like a lot of things, there's no consistency; it's just kind of a big freedom free-for-all for better or for worse.
Yea it varies. I pay the electric and internet bills, the landlord pays the water/sewer/trash/tax bills. FL USA.
This is pretty similar to how it is in the US at over 90% of the places I've ever rented. But since we're the world leader in enshittification, this kind of scumbag bullshit has been on the rise over the last few years.
I am glad you got some justice in the situation. Fuck them for making it difficult
I just went through a very long story with a building that uses realpage and they're absolutely scumbags. Fuck Bozzuto is the only way I can sum it up
Dude, good job fighting the system on this! I wish more people were like you!
Fuck yea man. I don't understand how people can work for sleezebag companies. I know a lot of us have to work, I get it, but I worked phones (retention, the worst) for a credit card company for a bit and I was able to do it on the up, and be legitimately helpful for customers, all while I refused to upsell anything that they didn't want.
I'd get "talked to" about it but I never cared. What's a better experience for the customer? fuck your monthly metrics, the idea is to RETAIN customers, right? Well that starts by not fucking them off so you can make a bonus.
I never got a bonus, and I never cared. I'm of the mind that the product should sell itself, otherwise it's not ready for market. If it's not filling a need then it's a waste of time and frankly, a companies resources. People generally don't forgive corporations, nor should they. It still offends me that if sales weren't what they were expecting it's somehow the people at the bottoms fault, especially when the people writing the shit don't have any need for the product. I won't be moved from this rock. If my sales aren't to your specs, take that back to legal and your ideas guys and tell them to try harder. Weak links can be found in more than one place.
Fwiw, I left the company, they didn't let me go. To this day I refuse to carry debt or even own credit cards tho. Nope, doesn't sit well with me. On the same vein tho, I measure how successful I am by how little I need and how little I spend, not how much I earn. This monopolization of everything has turned me staunchly anti-consumer (in the sense of consumption in general, not heil corporate/anti-customer. Right to repair 100%, revoke charters of those that bad faith skirt the intention). I both rue the reactionary in me, even if came from biological imperative, and fucking LOVE where Ive landed at the same time.
All you need to do in this world to win is kill your internal sense of justice but that's a price too high. Team Rawls for life.
This is part one.
I think this is part two.
It's awesome that you do this, but if you can afford to avoid debt entirely you are probably somewhat priviledged compared to some. A lot of people in the US are working off student debts for degrees that didn't quite deliver the jobs they were expecting. Or just were dealt a bad hand to begin with.
No man. In no way. I chop my firewood everyday. I have to rebuild everything I own. Everything. If it breaks, my life is learning whatever it is until it's fixed. Case in point, my automatic transmission went out. I had to learn that and rebuild that. I am not a novice with a wrench, but that's entirely because this is the life I've always had to live. I don't not recommend it, I wouldn't put my work load onto someone else and call that a rational thought.
July 5th we lost everything we own to fire. From our neighbors fireworks, we didn't have any. Insurance told us to kick rocks. Starting over. Completely. Again.
No man. I'm not privileged. I got more help from my neighbors than my family, not to begrudge them, they're all spread too thin too. I paid off my student loans in the mid aughties thankfully. I got the worst of the bunch, 3/4 of a degree, 4 years of debt and no degree. Thanks life. I took a vacation, once. I've been working full time since I was 15, almost 30 years now. I can't afford dental care that I need and I don't know what to do about that really, but I can tell, if it involves filling out 59 pages of bullshit that all says the same thing and spreading that nonsense around 5 agency, I'll die from an abscess tooth first. The hoops required for help are indignant, and frankly, everyday the world makes a worse case for sticking around.
The only privilege I would say I have is I measure my success by what I don't buy, which is the biggest middle finger I can give our society, as I teach others how to do the same. I'd go 128days on my dominant arm if that would put me at the negotiating table of an American General Strike. You couldn't talk me out of it, in fact.
The only silver lining is that if I could not be me, then I would only want to be Diogenes.
Sorry to hear about your hardship. You deserve a better system. Best of luck rebuilding and I hope things get better.
Thank you, that's quite kind of you and I'm not used to that from people.
That is incredible you were able to advocate for yourself that way.
It’s exhausting to have to fight like that for a fair shake. It makes me sad because I know how much energy and focus that takes.
Even if the victims can recoup some money, settlements almost never pay out commensurate with what was financially lost. What’s more is that company and the landlords who utilize it will never be able to repay the people whose effort, happiness, and opportunity they stole.
Yeah it was like my own little holy war. It went on for quite a while. Honestly it's partly that I just like being a pain in the ass and being hostile to people, and this was a golden opportunity where it was warranted.
Think about if all the vitriol that goes into internet political arguments could instead be turned outwards at the people who run the fucked up system. It was a brief moment where that energy was channeled in a productive direction and towards the source of the problem.