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this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024
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Depends on the boss. Some can be good and actually try to manage, but most tend to be lazy and not care much about working with their staff. Figuring out how to get the most out of your employees is part of every management training course I've ever seen, but a lot of managers/bosses tend to pick the things they like and not necessarily the things that work best for their employees.
I like that more and more of the kids these days are willing to settle for shitty stuff. Most of the people in my generation (+/- a generation) just deal with it and shut down anyone that thinks things can and should be better, and that sucks.
I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but you should consider if the person you're listening to is legit, or astroturfing, before weighing their words.
Corporations have a benefit to their bottom lines to shape narratives a certain way.
You mean like a corporation got some coworkers hired and doing actual work at the place I'm working at just to tell me I need to deal with my shit job? That seems a bit on the paranoid side.
I have a good job now.
Have no idea how what you just said can be response to this...
I'm talking about astroturfing comments on forums that are pushing back against positive change.
Yeah, I gathered what you were talking about. But you're responding to me talking about me talking to coworkers. I get that I didn't specifically say that, but I also don't say anything about comments on forums.
But, you did say this...
I read that sentence and thought that you were not happy about the fact that people want to shut down conversations about things that could be better.
My thought process was to try and cheer you up ("and that sucks"), by letting you know that you should realize it may not be just regular everyday people who don't want things to improve, but actual astroturfers who don't want things to improve, for their own personal benefit reasons.
And by saying that to you, you would realize that more people potentially think the way you do, want positive change conversations, and cheer you up a little bit.
So, my response to you...
Yeah, get that. I get where you went wrong as described in my last post.
I am not happy with a lot of people in my generation wanting to shut the conversation down. Astroturfing doesn't apply since the people that were doing it, were in person, face to face, coworkers. Not astroturfers.
What does make me feel better is that millennials and later seem to be more on board with me on this.
Are your co-workers the only people on the planet that have ever tried to shut down that kind of conversation?
Cannot conversations be expanded upon?
No need to be so literal, especially when I was responding generally, and trying to make you feel better.
No. This is a conversation, the person you replied to said something and that something meant a specific thing. Since I'm the person who said it, I know what that guy meant. I was talking about conversations I had in real life.
Even if I didn't mention that specifically or clearly enough, talking about a random thing never before brought up in the discussion is your leap.
They sure can. But since it's a conversation between at least two people, those two (or more) people should be on board with the expansion. Just forcing it into a conversation and ignoring what the others are telling you, is not a good way to have a conversation for a myriad of reasons.
Talking about something that doesn't make me feel bad in the first place (astroturfing in this case), and "fixing" it, has absolutely no chance of making me feel better. It's like putting a bandaid on my knee when it was my finger that was cut.
I'm aware of astroturfing, and can usually spot it in the wild. But online comments from other people hold much less weight for me than in person or at least personal conversations. So by default, astroturfing doesn't really affect me.
One person has to start the expansion though, it just doesn't manifest on its own.
One person's forcing is just another person's expanding, and shouldn't be responded to rudely.
So the content I got from your replies is basically a person is only allowed to respond exactly to what was said, cannot leverage from that and expand on it like any other normal conversation between people, cannot be helpful if the other person is not in need of it, and if they do so they're just plain 'wrong' for doing so.
You must be really fun at parties.
Sure, and like I already said, the others should be onboard with you. If however, like I did, push back against it and provide the reason for the push back, then it's bad form to keep pushing. You haven't even addressed the reason for the push back.
The first time is not forcing. Continually pushing and pushing is forcing.
Not anywhere near what I said. I said it doesn't make me feel better, and yet you persisted. That's not good behavior.
If you want to talk with someone rather than at them, then yes, you have to accept and adapt to what the other parties are telling either directly, through their actions, or even in hints. I'm telling you directly and that doesn't seem to work.
You prefer to talk at me rather than with me where only your desires and intentions matter. I don't see why you bother talking with anyone if that's what you do, because a wall is just as good as a conversation partner as one you don't listen to.
Yes actually. For one, I don't force the conversations after someone lets me know they're not interested in it. Tends to put people at ease when they feel that their boundaries are respected.
Pusing back against your rudeness is not forcing, its defending myself, especially when you double-down. Or do you expect to be rude to someone and not hear back from them?
Because when someone is trying to do something nice for you, you don't smack their hand way. And I didn't persist trying to be nice, but was calling you out for smacking my hand away, as it was VERY rude to do so, when the alternative was to just let the unneeded kindness go by unmentioned.
Well, when you start with being rude, you should not expect someone to talk "with you", they're going to talk "at you", pointing out your rudeness. Civility has to work both ways, and your communication was rude (constantly pointing out that I was wrong, instead of inquiring further to what I was trying to convey, etc.).
My point is to have conversations with others, but what you think you are doing is conversing, when is not, you're defending. And truly, I would say that you are the one who is not listening.
Nah, don't think so. If you verbally attack someone for suggesting something during a conversation, that can't be good party manners.
You want the right to act as you want with others without them being able to tell you when you are acting poorly. Gotcha.
Honestly, you were being rude, and instead of apologizing, you're doubling down to win an Internet argument in an intellectually dishonest obtuse sort of way. You could have let my astroturfing comment just be, instead of saying I was wrong for stating it, multiple times. A waste of both of our times, and reinforces the "no good deed goes unpunished" philosophy with me.
Pushing back against my rudeness? You think what I'm doing is rude and what you're doing is OK because you think I was rude.
I didn't smack your hand away, I made a joke based on your odd assumption. If you only wanted to be nice, why are you pushing me at all? When I try to do something nice, and the person receiving it doesn't like it, I apologize, because I did something to them. That they didn't like. That is the polite thing to do. The nice thing.
Trying to brow beat the other person into appreciating what you did or worse, to get them to apologize to you for not liking what you did is not nice. It's controlling behavior. It's bad behavior. You are behaving badly and rudely. No amount of ridiculously irrational ramblings is going to change that.
I already knew what you were trying to convey, I was not the one ignoring the other. Which most would agree is rude behavior.
Hey, I don't care. I was just offering up some friendly advice about how to interact with others. Act how ever you feel you need to. It just looks to me like you're missing the mark on what you claim to want to do. By all means, keep messing up, it doesn't affect me one way or the other.
I'm sure you would say that. I'm sure that in your head I'm the bad guy and you're some kind of crusader whipping me into submission for having the gall to respond differently to you than how you wanted me to.
And yes, I am fun at parties. Not sure why you think otherwise from a small sample of our interacting. It's kind of irrational.
Well this doesn't make any sense. Do you want to read what I try that again?
I wasn't. I have nothing to apologize for. If it makes you feel any better, I don't think there is any winning in an Internet argument. I honestly thought this was just some weird exchange and not an argument at all.
If you think it's a waste of time, and you're not getting entertainment out of it like I am, then why am did you keep replying?
I stand by what I said. Have a good day.
Alright, buddy, have fun.
Right, and this has been true for hundreds(?) of years.
I think it ebbs and flows. My grandpa liked his job and didn't put up with shit even if that meant losing his house. But he was still able to manage. We're in the roaring twenties again, hopefully after the coming financial disaster we get another round of 40 or so years of a strong middle class before the neo boomer summer children fuck it up for everyone.