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Israel shows footage of Hamas killings ‘to counter denial of atrocities' (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 11 months ago by praise_idleness@sh.itjust.works to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

you can say this about nearly any conflict in history

[-] iegod@lemm.ee 15 points 11 months ago

Yes, but this is disproportionate. The people are walled in, they have no prospects, they can't go anywhere, they have no army. This bombing is disproportionate. This isn't defense. It's genocide.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

War is disproportionate. It is not about "you shot two of my guys so I get to shoot two of your guys". It is about beating your opponent to the point that the rich fuck on the throne decides it is not worth having his peasants fight anymore.

Hamas, the de facto military and government of Gaza, attacked Israel. The IDF, the de jure military and de facto government of Israel are attacking Gaza. That is "war"

Is it genocide? Yes. Have Israel's government effectively been engaging in a slow genocide of the Palestinian people for decades? Yes

But this is largely no different than the mass bombings of Japan and Germany in WW2. Or any east asian town the US could find in the 50s and 60s. It is just that, for all its OTHER human rights violations, the US was very "white glove" during our subjugation of Iraq and Afghanistan so people forgot what a mass bombing is. Because it is not like anyone cared about all the wars in Africa (brown people) and Eastern Europe.

Do I think this is a horrific human rights abuse and real time genocide? Yes. But, again, that is "war". And Hamas have mostly just bunkered down and tried to play the PR war (which is somehow working for a terrorist group...).

This ends when Hamas surrenders or the IDF runs out of ammunition. Just like any siege. And if Hamas gave even the slightest shit about the Palestinian people? They would be negotiating to surrender to a third party and get tried in The Hague rather than allowing the IDF to take them alive.

[-] iegod@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

Stop and think about what you're advocating here. You're a piece of shit if you can justify even one civilian death here.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I am advocating for nothing. I am explaining what is happening and that this is how things have happened for hundreds of years.

Well, no, that is a lie. I am advocating for the leaders of Hamas to turn themselves over to the international court so that this war can end. Avoid getting Disappeared by the IDF, but very much remove the "justification" for the IDF to siege Gaza.

[-] rivermonster@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The moment you went for "Yes, but..." on war crimes and crimes against humanity, you lost your way.

Condem all war crimes, Israel's, Hamas, Chinas, America's, IDC where you live or who you sympathize with, never "but" a war crime or crimes against humanity.

Edit: Downvoting condemnation of war crimes is my point. Thank you for showing us what you are.

[-] iegod@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Both can be true. It's not worth having a discussion about how two fully backed wealthy nation states going into a conflict is the same as one of those nations going after a population of 2million, 50% of which are children, living in roughly 45 square km total. They're just not.

Imagine living in an area smaller than manhattan, with a fraction of the population. That's it. That's your world. You're not allowed to leave. You're not allowed to travel. Good luck with your future prospects. What a fucking joke to think that ~1 million people can successfully run anything let alone represent the population and government in these conditions.

Oh and by the way these bombs are about to destroy what little of your shit life you had. Oh and you're the oppressor against the bigger nations. And oh you deserve this.

So yeah, all war sucks. But you can't turn a blind eye to how disproportionate this is. That makes it worse. That makes it unjustifiably worse. We are literally witnesses an extermination of a people. And here is a huge contingent of people applauding what Israel is up to. Fuuuuuuck me.

this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023

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