134
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
134 points (100.0% liked)
Australian Politics
1262 readers
14 users here now
A place to discuss Australia Politics.
Rules
This community is run under the rules of aussie.zone.
Recommended and Related Communities
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our related communities on aussie.zone:
- Australia (general)
- Australian News
- World News (from an Australian Perspective)
- Aussie Environment
- Ask an Australian
- AusFinance
- Pictures
- AusLegal
- Aussie Frugal Living
- Cars (Australia)
- Coffee
- Chat
- Aussie Zone Meta
- bapcsalesaustralia
- Food Australia
Plus other communities for sport and major cities.
https://aussie.zone/communities
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
You have a point but what are you saying looks to me as same old "white man" chauvinism. "We will desire for you what you are own to others". Sorry, I treat all people equally, regardless of their race,culture or believes. Please do not force apartheid on me or now mine country.
I have no reason to feel a victim. I just do not want make aboriginals a victims again, many of them are in deep shit already.
Many of the reasons they’re “in deep shit already” come back to governments making unilateral decisions for easy media and corporate donor ‘reasons’ - specifically targeting Aboriginal people (as allowed under the constitution) rather than listening to what the communities actually need or want.
Hence the Voice. But now we can keep doing the same old shit, targeting the same old Aboriginal communities, but 60% of the population can keep kidding themselves there’s no victims and they’re absolutely not racists at all, oh no no.
No one says the was not a victims, but these guys are dead as well as one who did wrong to them. Task in hand it not give some better treatment but give all everyone same treatment. Remote communities need help - absolutely - but not because they aboriginal but because they in trouble. And do you really think that if voice passed it would help average aboriginal? Nope, it will harm them tremendously, there is reason why they mostly voted no.
Thanks. This is first piece of facts I got in this discussion.
It's not like you were giving out facts or explaining your opinions
I did many times. Referendum was about First nation which is race. It make it racist, you can't interpreter it in any other way.
You didn't explain this view, you just treat it as fact - that's not how a debate works, both sides need to agree on facts, otherwise they are not facts
Sorry. I have explained it other thread of this discussion. Make them special will give everyone who discriminate them are real "constitutional" reason to do so, which will will hurt average guy. Been "special" only good if you hold power. Plus I have doubt that "the voices" will be voice of average guy, not some Aboriginal elite, but this is my pure speculation.
That is an interesting point. If we assume that racists will be racist anyway, do you speculate that it would create new racists?
Yes. May be not create but fuel existing one. In this moment racists can base their views only on their own prejudges (hard core one may use some pseudoscience to base their believes , but they are beyond redemption). Special treatment even without any real power will give some creditability to arguments like. "These guys using their status to stole our taxes" and shit like that. If only referendum was about giving special voice to disadvantaged comminutes, a kind of political shortcut it will be way more palatable with pretty much same effect.
I suppose then we can agree that it would not make Australia "more racist" but just emboldened existing racists. Weighing up the pros and cons, however, it probably would've been a net positive with, considering not only the benefit the confidence it could instill in First Nations Peoples but the optics from an international perspective
IMHO It will set very bad precedent and focusing nation on past. Aboriginals are not only group which was wronged. But agree it is just opinion piece.
And there we go, you're admitting you're just making shit up. What a fucking surprise.
Only in second part and I clear state it. Do not be naive, politics is shit show.
Politics is a shit show, but you're still making shit up.
Repeat after me: It. Is. Not. Racist. To. Make. The. Playing. Field. Level. For. All.
And furthermore, mentioning race doesn't make anything racist. Was Mabo racist?
Any differential treatment which mention race is racist, by definition. Even it intended to To. Make. The. Playing. Field. Level." but i fail to see how it can be in this case.
Again, the dictionary disagrees:
racism [ rey-siz-uhm ] noun a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
Also called in·sti·tu·tion·al rac·ism [in-sti-too-shuh-nl rey-siz-uhm, -tyoo-], struc·tur·al rac·ism [struhk-cher-uhl rey-siz-uhm], sys·tem·ic rac·ism [si-stem-ik rey-siz-uhm] . a policy, system of government, etc., that is associated with or originated in such a doctrine, and that favors members of the dominant racial or ethnic group, or has a neutral effect on their life experiences, while discriminating against or harming members of other groups, ultimately serving to preserve the social status, economic advantage, or political power of the dominant group.
And yeah, it's pretty fucking obvious that you can't see the forest for the trees.
Answered in other branch
No it isn't. It's the first set of information that has been spoon fed to you and you haven't realised we've been educating you cos you are so close minded and dense that you can't see the forest for the trees. I wish you the best in life, but I can see the future headline now "immigrant dies due to weapons grade stupidity".
So no arguments, only insults. Sorry closing there.
I've given you more than enough arguments. Instead you ignore anything I say and try to say that it is me who's the racist. I'm only replying in kind to what you're saying. As the saying goes "you meet one arsehole in your day, great you met an arsehole. But you meet arseholes all day, well, then may be some introspection is required". I suggest you look inward and try and move away from being a backwards idiot, I wouldn't be surprised if the idiocy you've expressed in this thread doesn't get you punched in the face otherwise.
You might treat them equally. That doesn't mean that the rest of the nation does. We now know 60% of the nation is racist. Which is an improvement on the 77% we had back during the Tampa crisis, I guess. But yeah, we need the voice to give them a fair go, like the rest of us got. You're an immigrant, and unless you're white, I guarantee you've copped some shit. Stop being so defensive and trying to put down our indigenous population, and instead reach down and help them up to our level. They just want a level playing field, they're not asking for the world.
It is something twisted logic. "Yes" vote would not help first nation, it will hurt them as now everyone who hate them would have a real reason to do so. And government probably will not miss opportunity to to make them scapegoats.
We do not know percentage. 40% of yes voters are racist by their vote, 60% of NO voters are split between one who do not accept racism and one who do not accept racism which do not benefit them. We do not know how they split.
Why couldn't you have said this earlier? Then I could have easily judged you as the narrow minded racist that you are. The "yes" vote would most definitely help our first nations people's, or can you provide a different reason as to why the overwhelming majority of them voted "yes"? Go on, I love seeing idiots struggle... And that brings up another point related to your mindless drivel, are you saying that first nations people are racist towards themselves when they voted "yes"? They are hated because they are different, not because of a potential panel of people that helps the govt make fair and balanced decisions that affect them.
I genuinely despise you right now. You started off being a bit confused, now you are just spewing right wing non truths that are somehow worse than what was printed leading up to the vote. I wish you were never made a citizen here, we have enough prejudiced, close minded people here, we don't need more... And if you don't like this being directed at you, think of the first nations people in our country who have had to experience this for centuries. Maybe this will shake your core and give you some compassion. I'm doubtful it will due to your military grade stupidity, but I can still hope.
Sorry, you do not listen to my arguments. And I fail to see what of what I say make me a racist. I always argued for quality of all Australian.
I've countered all your arguments. Your main one seems to be that this was somehow racist when the whole point of it was to counter centuries old, ingrained racism. You are so fundamentally wrong you should be committed. You're either a die hard racist or dumb as fuck, I honestly can't tell to the point that I want to study you. Either way, you don't represent what Australia is supposed to stand for and I suggest you take a long, hard look at yourself if you want to integrate here. Cos if I hear you say this shit in public, I'm gonna call you on it. Not physically, but I will rage and make sure you know exactly how badly the words you say affect people.
It's not racist to help a race that has historically been done wrong by. The whole point was to lift them up to the same level as everyone else, not elevate them to some privileged position. I'm sick of repeating this, stop repeating right wing propoganda that has no basis in reality you racist fuck.
I guess we reach to root of our disparagement. I do not accept racism in any form. You seem accept it as method of fixing old wrong doing. Dixi.
The dictionary disagrees:
racism [ rey-siz-uhm ] noun a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
Also called in·sti·tu·tion·al rac·ism [in-sti-too-shuh-nl rey-siz-uhm, -tyoo-], struc·tur·al rac·ism [struhk-cher-uhl rey-siz-uhm], sys·tem·ic rac·ism [si-stem-ik rey-siz-uhm] . a policy, system of government, etc., that is associated with or originated in such a doctrine, and that favors members of the dominant racial or ethnic group, or has a neutral effect on their life experiences, while discriminating against or harming members of other groups, ultimately serving to preserve the social status, economic advantage, or political power of the dominant group.
There is nothing racist about making the playing field level. It is racist to want to keep a race below another, which is what you're advocating. So, I say again, you're the only racist one here.
We have different dictionaries. From Webster:
It's neither prejudice or discrimination though, so you've fucked that up too.
Edit: hang the fuck on. This is a link to the Webster definition and it doesn't say that. Stop making shit up.
How it is not discrimination if treatment is different based on race?
Since you love Webster so much (see my edit above): discrimination noun dis·crim·i·na·tion di-ˌskri-mə-ˈnā-shən Synonyms of discrimination 1 a : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment racial discrimination
Because it's not prejudicial, that's why.
Sorry. if it not prejudicial than it justified. How you justify one race over other?
Oh ffs. How are you not getting that it was to make the races equal because first nations people are well below the rest of us? I've met rocks smarter than you.
So you now claiming that they are inferior than other humans. 😱 So they need help to get to same level? Man, this it pure racism.
No, your English comprehension just sucks. Right now, the playing field isn't level. First nations people are below everyone else in that regard. Do you understand now?
Quoting you.
Yeah, and? Your English sucks. In context, most english speakers could infer what's implied. You can't. That's on you, not me, mate.
I tend to disagree, you are not communicating clearly. As you can't provide anything meaningful and been so useless. I'm done here. And just one last advice. Learn how to communicate, yelling, repeating same shit over and over again and insults does not help you or you cause. Good thing that some other guys step up and provide some useful comments, so I can't just dismiss all "yes" voters as been same as you.
So, I don't speak at a grade 5 level. Again, that's on you, not me. Take some English classes or fuck off.
You have been Ignored.
And yet, here you are, still interacting, you racist.