You have been very awesome in this, and I feel this type of interaction is much more constructive and productive than a lot of what has gone on in a lot of these other comments. In talking with some other more angry vegans in the past, I get it's tiring to take the effort making responses that are really involved like this only to find out the non-vegan taking to you was being disingenuous the whole time or looking to try to catch you doing something non-vegan or whatever stupid point they're trying to make. But I'm glad we took a chance talking to each other. It's hard to sit here and type everything out, and I wish more in person conversations went this way.

We mostly align in the utlitiarian aspects (I'm not really utilitarian, but I'll get to that), but we differ in the aspect of commodification.

I think this is a fair assessment. It's a bit more nuanced for me, but that I feel is pretty fair for your average person. Most people are removed from farm type animals in their daily lives and don't really make that connection that a hamburger was once chilling in the sun eating grass having a great time. I do think about that though, and it's what has led to me trending your direction food-wise.

We cannot sustain our population on hunting alone.

Absolutely. Human population didn't take off until we learned to become farmers. It's what made us civilized in a literal and modern sense. And with the whole energy pyramid it definitely makes the most sense. I love the developments going on with genetically altered grains that provide better vitam it n content and the tech bringing us lab synthesized proteins that capture the textures and sometimes tastes of meat and can't wait for them to scale. I probably love the taste of Beyond more than any meat. It is just way too expensive still, and could stand to be a bit healthier. If price and nutrition parity was there, you'd have me vegan instantly.

There is no likely scenario where the entire planet would turn vegan over night. Also, it is not an argument for continuing breeding animals into suffering and death.

Yes, it's more a thought experiment I give myself. Not intended to be a straw man argument but it could be seen and probably is used by many in that way.

As for interventionism, we could argue that we don't know enough and just make matters worse. There are definitely real life cases of that. But I do feel we as a whole should be stewards of our planet. We did make most of these problems and should try to fix them, but many will likely take hundreds of years or more to fix realistically.

Second, I don't think we should breed animals into existence just so that they can exist.

That is a lot of the root of my feelings of personal and societal responsibility. It's too late to not do these things, and I feel the just thing to do is own our actions and to do what we can for the world we've created. Nothing wrong with your opinions on that though.

I'll be sure to check out Ed Winters. I'm always looking to get a fresh perspective on things and grow as a person.

Thank you again for taking this time with me. More people should do the same. I feel a great respect for you and your beliefs. You're definitely someone I would enjoy having regular friendly chats with.