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this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
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What you forgot you mention about the wikipedia page, is that these are not facts, but quotes from a religious scholar.
A religious scholar, who would greatly benefit from people thinking of positively of his religion.
If google puts it on their wikipedia page that them avoiding hundreds of millions in taxes is in context a really good thing, would you believe them?
I don't even need to respond to it, it just speaks for itself.
Yes. It's literally "All of you are equal, some are just more equal than others".
Ah, I see. "Seperate but equal".
It is possible, and it does happen.
In fact, every employee can start their own company and become its CEO.
A more apt analogy would be, a company where white people can become managers and C-suite, but black people cannot.
Would you support this?
"The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner's control, especially in involuntary servitude."
Yep, that fits.
I'll never understand how people like you can sink to such levels, defending slavery.
And again, the rampant homophobia.
This assumes all religious scholars have a nefarious agenda. I don't doubt some or many do, but no more so than the final population average. There are many who genuinely want to help others and believe in teaching and sharing peace.
Because you think "slavery" means the same thing across all time. That level of willful ignorance speaks for itself also.
No, it's all are equal but not everyone can have the same job and responsibilities. Not everyone can be the owner of a company (unless you're WestJet).
Just "equal".
I did specify "large corporation" in my example. Thanks for ignoring that.
Involuntary servitude under the law (back in the era we're talking about) had clear definitions. It was often invoked to collect a debt and could only be held until the debt was paid off, not longer. Captured non-Hebrew enemies were also sometimes put under involuntary servitude. But they were required to either convert, at which point they would be freed. Or else sold off to a non-Hebrew.
And I'll never understand how people can have such reductionist ways of thinking. "Slavery", as it's used today, is technically "chattel slavery", which is different. They have similar letters in English, but are not the same thing. Some translations even use different terms because the modern English word "slavery" has a different meaning. Indentured and voluntary servitude were commonplace back then. Today it isn't. Although the relationship between an employee and employer share many of the same definitions. "Slaves" under voluntary servitude were even able to "seek a new master". Basically find a new job. Such cruelty.
Well, this one clearly does, as he's trying to whitewash slavery to make his religion look better. Seems pretty nefarious to me.
They are ot free to leave, and can be abused by their masters at will. It's close enough.
Except the high jobs and high responsiblilities are only available to men.
You know your arguments about this sound familiar to those used by pro-segregationits. I would say something about strange bedfellows, but since you're agruing for thr same thing, I guess it's not so strange.
Of course, you forget to mention how none of this forgiveness applies to women, who weren't freed after six years/the debt being paid off, and could instead be forcibly taken as a wife.
And of course slaves taken from neighbouring countries weren't to be returned or freed, they were slaves for life.
Voluntary servitude? Maybe.
Were they able to get a new job under involuntary servitude? No. So slavery.
But indentured servitude with physical abuse is still slavery, and the bible supports it. No way around it.
There's a saying that when democracy doesn't favour conservatives, they don't turn from conservatism, they'll turn on democracy. As it turns out it also applies to christans: when christians find out the bible supports slavery, they don't turn of the bible, instead they'll start saying slavery was actually good. And lo and behold...
And of course the rampant homophobia.
I really don't care about your religious podcast, especially one that tries to whitewash slavery.
It does come with pay, as well and power and influence.
I'm hearing reality and ignoring the delusional falsehoods you're saying, yes.
You're also ignoring the part where women slaves could be forced to marry their masters, where men could not.
But they were completely equal, right?
I didn't say that for the part where it says how you can beat your slave.
It didn't say that for the part about dashing babies into rocks.
It didn't say that for child murder.
Oh, I see. When something supports agenda then it's the bible's core message, but when something doesn't look to good for it, then it's just recorded in it, and also out of context.
How convenient.
If you haven't noticed, the bible frequently contradicts itself.
Huh, so this wasn't a quote used by you?
"In fact, there were cases in which, from a slave's point of view, the stability of servitude under a family in which the slave was well-treated would have been preferable to economic freedom."
Sure bud, I'll rephrase. I really don’t care about your totally non-religious podcast, especially one that tries to whitewash indentured servitude.
Them too. But you only need to look at how the christian churches protect pedophiles and abusers, help them escape the law and reoffend again to see how much power and influence they get.
Plus, the catholic church alone is worth billions, with land holdings, historical artifacts, etc.
Becoming a high-ranking member grants you influence over your underlings and delusional people, food and shelter for the rest of your life, etc.
Feel free to quote the verse where it says you can only beat slaves as judicial punishment.
And that context just happens to be in form of direct commandments. Oops.
I think plenty of people would prefer to be poor and free then to be fed and a slave.
But if you think otherwise, would you be in favor of putting all homeless and poor people in involuntary servitude? Since it's preferable to welfare and starving, according to you.
Of course.
And when the bible says all homosexuals must be killed, what metaphor is that? Or is it missed context?
I tend to do that when the person I'm arguing against supports such despicable things.
I looked up dan carlin and he has a some christian podcast called Word Christian Fellowship podcast. But sure, not religious or bias.
Unable to be objective by agreeing with you that slavery was a good thing? Are you listening to yourself?
Are you his publicist or something? You're trying really hard so sell his stuff.
It seems your forgot to answer this:
I think plenty of people would prefer to be poor and free then to be fed and a slave.
But if you think otherwise, would you be in favor of putting all homeless and poor people in involuntary servitude? Since it’s preferable to welfare and starving, according to you.
And then of course there’s all the homophobia in the bible, but that seems to be a positive to people such as you who support sex based discrimination.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matthew 5:17–18
It's still in effect according to your prophet and the son of your god, but you surely know more than him.
You said: "The Bible doesn’t teach dominating and torturing people, for one."
I gave to plenty of evidence, from the bible directly, that it teaches dominating and torturing people, you just choose to disregard facts because it does not agree with your narrative, which seems to be an epidemic with you religious types.
That (unlike slavery) is not a despicable things, so I won't argue against it. Maybe try understanding my argument before trying (and failing) to come up with a snappy reply.
Again, I won't buy any of his content. I don't care for slavery apoligists.
I'm keenly aware that christians forced their religion on everybody they could when it was acceptable. Thankfully, it's less acceptable now, but we still have ways to go. Thanks for reminding me how christianity pushed back the progess of science and humanity by centuries.
You did quote the wikipedia article that said that...
I looked up his name and his christian podcast came up, I went to his website where he is selling is podcast episodes.
I didn't need to discredit him, he did that all on his own.
So you just argue for this you don't belive in and agree with?
This is you, by the way:
And he is a homophobe as well, what a surprise...
I would think you really didn't need to argue the fact that slavery is a bad thing, but the bible and you seem to disagree.
The arguments was about if the bible teaches to dominate and torture people, by the way, not just about slavery.
I just though that you'd agree that slavery counted as dominating and torturing people. How wrong I was.
Well, if the "source material" is a supposedly supernatural book and religion, and a pastor's podcast for that religion, I really don't need to undermine it, it already undermined itself.
How brave of you to leave an argument you lost.
I don't misrepresent what you said, you're just insinuating I did, becuase you realized your arguments sound really bad when you put them out there.