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this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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If government invested in a renewables program by installing charging stations almost equal to the amount of fuel servos we have, and heavily incentivise electric vehicles we would see a major transition without car manufacturers shoving corruption in our faces and money towards lobby groups.
Unlikely. Car manufacturers don't particularly care how you're going to charge it. That's a you problem not a them problem.
They're resisting because Oz has been a place they can dump polluting cars that are cheap to make. The big markets like EU and California have mandated EVs, if they can delay the cutoff here it buys them time to do the ramp ups they should have been doing for a decade.
Toyota in particular is the worst culprit, they spent a lot of money in the US trying to prevent ICE being banned, because they bet on hydrogen and lost, now they're doing exactly the same delay tactics here.
Thanks for the input. I hope I was at least making sense previously even though it was more of a utopian society that we'd probably get to see something like that.
I'm not having kids, but I'd like for the youth of today to grow up in a more eco friendly lifestyle without the need for gas in the future.
You're not wrong that more chargepoints help, it reduces EV resistance and range concerns, and hence helps consumers be willing to buy EVs.
It won't stop legacy ICE lobbying to delay mandatory cutoff on ICE sales.
They (collectively) have $trillions invested in ICE factories and engine designs etc that become valueless when ICE are banned. As VW found out leveraging existing factories is ineffective, you need to build for EV manufacture, which means billions in written off assets and years of delay for legacy auto.
If they can convince any market to delay the ban that's literally dollars in the bank and bonuses in pocket.
BEVs are a greenwashing scam. They are frankly just a ploy by corporations to be dependent on their product just like we are to oil. In fact, it's even worse since it is part of the Chinese government's agenda to of dominating the car industry. Much of what we hear may legitimately be propaganda from the Chinese government.
Toyota is fundamental correct in their assessment. The BEV is destined for failure since it has no purpose but the serve some specific group or interest. As a result, they've invested in alternative ideas such as hydrogen cars. Instead of being the curve, they are likely far ahead of it. It is everyone else that wasting all of their resources on a dead-end.
What nonsense.
Battery power is a technology that is continuing to grow with billions being poured into it from every industry imaginable.
The only people who want garbage like hydrogen are those who want to maintain the status quo of fuel being supplied by a few big producers at a pump.
You're just promoting BEV propaganda. And being a stooge of the Chinese government, the only group that even benefits from BEVs displacing all local car production. It is not a revolutionary technology. It is an obsolete idea from the 19th century. It is a greenwashing scam to think it has any real merit.
Meanwhile, hydrogen is made from water and represent an actual green technology.
do you actually know how hydrogen power works? hint: its not just chucking water into some sort of hydrogen engine
Hydrogen is electrolyzed from water. It is basically a battery made from water. It is a much better idea than a battery made from expensive metals that have to be mined in vast quantities.
and you must surely be aware that there are significant challenges in making this a commercially viable consumer technology, right?
im not anti hydrogen at all, its actually one of the main reasons i invested in FMG, but being against electric cars because you think hydrogen is better is frankly weird given that electric cars exist now and are starting to become more affordable for everyday people
There are challenges to every technology. But on the whole, hydrogen cars are a "solved" problem. We can all switch to them if we wanted to. The problem is BEV propaganda making shit up against hydrogen cars. This is really an attempt to block progress.
BEVs are a very limited idea. Not everyone can own one. The grid is not setup to handle hundreds of million of BEVs charging. And the resource requirements make them effectively unsustainable in their own right. So in reality, it's time to scale back our obsession for BEVs. If for nothing else, so we can have a backup option. The last thing we want is a BEV monopoly.
but are hydrogen cars really a solved thing? theres no infrastructure, like at all, to cater for them. while there is early, but increasing infrastructure for EV's. If the choice was between hydrogen and petrol absolutely, roll that shit out today, like I mentioned im not against hydrogen power, but EV kind of has the momentum and logic behind it. With rooftop solar an EV is a no brainer, especially if you can charge during daytime
Lack of infrastructure is the only issue left. The problem with BEVs is that not everyone can own one or afford one. People who insisting on BEVs because they are doable now are doing what the people who pushed for diesel cars did a decade ago. It is just a short-term idea that will eventually backfire.
What local car production? There is none in this country.
I want a BEV car because I can charge it for free with the solar panels I already have on my roof. That benefits me - not China.
As for Hydrogen... whatever advantages it has are irrelevant since nobody sells an affordable and practical hydrogen car. I'm sure hydrogen will be a viable option one day, but it's not right now or in the near future.
The goal is to eliminate all car companies that isn't controlled by China.
You don't own any of the supply chain that provides the batteries and solar panels. The West barely makes solar panels because China's strategy already succeeded.
No one sold a BEV a dozen or so years ago. People are just complaining rather than pushing for change.
Bullshit. Of course manufacturers are concerned about charging networks. If you can't charge their car you won't buy their car.
How so? Hydrogen hasn't been banned anywhere. There's still a lot of implementation problems but it's a pretty neat tech. There's 3x huge solar projects going ahead in West Aus to crack water and produce hydrogen.
There's also a few green hydrogen hubs planned for Qld as well.
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/albanese-splashes-70m-on-qld-green-hydrogen-20230114-p5ccjn
They are funding charging stations, and the networks are pretty decent now for long trips.
There's still holes that need filled in, especially when you get away from population centres and main roads, but you can drive from Port Douglas in far north Queensland to Adelaide in any new EV.
Adelaide to Perth is currently a no. There's a 2000km stretch with one fast charger. Not impossible, but it means several days of slow charging along the route.