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How the heck did we get here? Most best selling "cars" are now superzied pickups and SUVs.
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this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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Well, we needed a vehicle that could fit two children and related sports gear and, ideally, haul bikes at some point, and the had the cargo capacity for the yearly road trip vacation with the extended family. A small SUV was the winner as no car measured up and a true truck was overkill.
Shocking though it may be, for many, the use case may be valid.
Minivans can carry more passengers and cargo than SUVs.
Indeed, but still they are so gauche lmao
They can; they can't fit in my garage.
If your oversized modern SUV can fit, any minivan can fit, and the SUV provides less interior space because they universally waste internal space, while vans maximize space, while maximizing stability and safety as much as they can, so the least safe seat is the "navigator's seat," or the passenger seat up front. Other than that particular potential death seat, that I sit in routinely, the rest of the van is almost as well defended as the SUV, the SUV may have better defenses against gunfire.
Oh? By what numbers, specifically, are you comparing?
The Chrysler Pacifica, for example, comes in at nearly two feet longer than the average mid sized SUV I ended up getting.
They can carry more passengers OR cargo vs a truck. I love minivans, but the only way you're getting anywhere near a pickup-truck sized bed space is by folding/removing all the seats and making it a two-seater.
And even then, you can't put anything wet or messy back there.
Pickup trucks have their upsides for people who need them.
SUV's don't make much sense to me, other than the case where you need the people space AND you need to tow something heavy.
I wouldn't say heavy, but yes, combined people + cargo + bikes space is pretty much it for us.
Minivans can tow light trailers, usually as much as a car. The big SUV's approach 9-10K lb towing capacity.
That said, you can probably get a decent used SUV for less than a minivan.
Cars can easily tow as much as a medium sized truck. Minivans and full sized vans can tow as much or more than a full sized pickup or SUV.
Minivans are DQ'd by another constraint in that they don't fit in my garage thus I cannot ensure full coverage insurance and can guarantee it would sustain significant damage within a few years as my state has the kind of hail-and-tornadoes weather insurance companies know and hate.
They're otherwise amazing especially for cargo capacity. Seeing my auto shop teacher pull two transmissions out of the back of one back in my highschool days... seriously adjusted my opinion of them and their utility.
Oh dang, that's a rough constraint. Is it a length problem? I would think the sliding door would be perfect for a tight garage.
It is a length problem, yes. My Outlander and Volt barely fit lengthwise.
Apparently Iowa home designers had much less grand expectations of garage capacity back in the '90s.
My condolences, that sucks Glad you were able to find something that's worked out for you at least! If you ever need to tow random stuff but don't want to store a trailer, harbor freight makes one that folds in half and stores vertically.
That is extremely good to know - that's going to come in very useful as we start looking around for mower equipment.
Minivans can't keep up with a real truck, but most of the "trucks" sold today have a smaller bed than a 1982 Toyota pickup. They couldn't even begin to compete with a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge pickup of the same era of 1982, where those American made pickups are less than 1/3 the size of the modern US made variants, and can still carry almost 4 times their modern varient.
All that was so that I could say this: modern Sprinter, Transit, and 15 passenger Vans have more passenger and cargo capabilities than any of these so called trucks that cannot carry even 50% of the exact same model trucks that existed 20 years ago, and still couldn't carry more than a 15 passenger van in terms of passengers or cargo.
Minivans have tons of space for 4 people and related sports gear in all by the most extreme cases like 4 kayaks (2 kayaks? Put on roof)
Dirty or wet? Lay down a blanket.
When I say messy or wet I mean a half ton of dirt, a yard full of trees trimmings, a bed full of recently used septic equipment.
Not to mention chemicals you probably don't want to share airspace with. Had a friend with a pool cleaning biz that used a ranger for this reason.
Sorry but I can only laugh. Guys was talking about "two children and related sports gear" and you're off talking about septic equipment instead? Lol. Talk about bad faith discussion.
Yeah, I was pointing out we were talking about different things. It's called communicating.
Good communication is talking about the topic at hand, not going on wild tangents without actually saying so and then only after the fact say you were discussing septic tanks lol. Enjoy your bad faith last word, cheers.
Frankly, I don't see us making use of roof mounts. The older I've gotten, the more I value my back.
Sounds like a normal car with a hitch was the correct choice you ignored.
Not really. We already have a 4-door with about as much trunk space as one can get and it wasn't sufficient.
As a side note, how's the view from that high horse?
Not the poster above, but I used to haul two dirtbikes on a large trailer behind my Ford Mondeo, and I could still fit 5 adults and about a month of groceries in the car. It cost me £350, and I sold it for £200 after 3 years and 65000 miles. Zero problems cruising at 80mph full laden without the trailer or 60mph with.
The guy I sold it to stripped it and used it as a dirt track racecar and it lasted him a whole season.
I'm slightly mystified why anyone would want to throw extra money at SUVs, there's so much more to life.
I have neither the storage options for, nor the interest in owning, a large trailer. I do have the option of selecting a vehicle which best suits my needs while fitting in my garage. I suspect that, were children and sports not part of the equation, I'd be perfectly happy with my Volt.
Oh, I didn't own or store the trailer. I rented it when I needed it and just had a little hitch rack to take one bike most of the time. If I needed to only take two dirtbikes I'd have got a folding bike trailer which takes up hardly any space.
My point was that my midsize hatchback had the same internal space for taking things around as your SUV, just with less weight and fuel consumption. Unless your kids are larger than adult sized and you have five of them?
I feel like it's worth pointing out that the car I drive is labeled as an SUV, and it's smaller and more fuel efficient than a Mondeo.
Not every car labeled an "SUV" is huge three row beast. If your hatchback doesn't bottom out going into a driveway now, we call that an SUV.
If you say you have a SUV in a thread about people having huge vehicles then is it surprising anyone reading that would think you meant you had a full-time one?
Anyway, to answer your question, if what is considered generally to be a small SUV is a Volvo X40, then the Mondeo was equally long but thinner, shorter, and about 2/3 the weight. I also had a 1995 Civic for a bit, which was lighter still and could carry nearly as much, though it couldn't tow more than 500kg.
I didn't actually ask a question or feel surprised about anything, just responding to your comment about "why would anyone buy an SUV".
My car which is sold as an SUV is smaller and more fuel efficient than the car you lauded as an alternative.
I don't want a big car, and I didn't get a big car. A massive Buick station wagon is a big car that isn't an SUV, just like not every SUV is some jumbo monstrosity.
A small or mid sized SUV usually has cargo space comparable to a hatchback, definitely less than a station wagon.
That guy correctly pointed out your logic is flawed, if you've been convinced by a salesman that the cargo space is something other than what it is, reflecting on that could make you a more informed consumer in the future. Getting annoyed at people commenting because you perceived them to have a 'holier than thou' attitude on it won't benefit anyone.
Having experience with SUVs, hatchbacks, and wagons, I've yet to find that to be the case.
They shared a faulty conclusion they'd already drawn regarding the universal supremacy of one option and universal failing of another option even before truly understanding my use case.
And if you've assumed I had been convinced by a salesman rather than understanding my own use-cases and requirements and selecting a vehicle which meets those needs, not only have you erred, you've disregarded my highlight of having done so in my initial post.
My experience has been that criticizing the arrogance and assumptions of those in an ivory tower has been more enabling - indeed, more enabling of more informed discourse - than comments defending the actual arrogance and assumptions of a rando.
The problem with making claims like this, without actually having checked first, is how easily refuted they are by someone who has. A quick Google search puts cargo space in an Audi a6 wagon at 30 cubic ft. An Audi q3 (small SUV) has less than 24 and an Audi q5 has 26. This trend is typical for all full sized wagons compared to compact SUVs (many share the same platform). The compact platform is comparable to the 22 cubic ft in a vw golf (small hatchback) - this makes sense as the vw gold and q3 literally share a platform (as is common for small SUVs and hatchbacks across brands). Any claim to have experienced something else is clearly misinformed as demonstrated by a quick Google search.
Aided by a quick Google search I've demonstrated that your claimed experience is flat wrong. You've been misled (or could be knowingly lying, but that is not very likely).
Yes, I've assumed that you've behaved in a way consistent with the overwhelming majority of people. Your claims about cargo space are wrong, so if that's the basis of your use case as described in your previous post and you're honestly representing what you think, you have been misled. With the information presented, knowledge of the vehicles described and a basic knowledge of how marketing works, this seems by a huge margin to be the most likely case.
Well, I've now given some informed examples of cargo space so perhaps now that you've been presented with actual numbers (which I'd invite you to check yourself if you think I've invented them) you can now review your assumptions and reflect on how people are manipulated into believing that small/compact SUVs offer better cargo space or are somehow superior to conventional cars, when in fact they are not. To say no car measured up either means you didn't check or you were misled.
Minivan. Or van.
If either would fit in my garage, yeah, they'd absolutely be valid.
But those are both bigger. Seems odd to be telling a person to get a larger vehicle when we're complaining about vehicles being too big.
Depends on the exact size of the SUV. I think minivans are smaller than most SUVs (all except actual compact SUVs). Minivans are also better for cargo because SUVs ride higher and thus have less space. And sliding doors are better for kids and tight spaces. And better mileage. Etc
It sounds like something like a Volvo V70 would've been a better fit. Those beats can swallow a house, including its residents, and with a bike rack it can carry the whole neighborhoods bikes.
I don't know where the person you're replying to is from, but in the US Volvo's are very expensive to buy and very expensive to maintain. They are a luxury brand through and through. They're good cars but the average person cannot afford to purchase or maintain one.
I can't seem to find those these days - I see Volvo V60 and V90. The Volvo V60 does have a PHEV variant which does appeal but ultimately it seems to be the same form factor and capacity as a Subaru Outback or Chevy Volt; I've experience with both of those and they has far less usable storage in the back than the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV we ended up with.
As the Volt does, though, this could be a legit option for replacing that for the wife. That said, the price seems ridiculously high - over here, I'm seeing them go for ~52-58k whereas my Outlander was "only" 48.
For a once a year event, renting is almost certainly cheaper than using a larger vehicle you don't need for the rest of the year. Another option is driving two vehicles during the trip.
I'm interested in your reasoning behind cheaper.
Your assumption behind don't need the rest of the year - do you believe there are zero scenarios where the wife and I are both out and about? Perhaps... working?
You're correct - we could double the mileage / energy consumption, wear-and-tear, cognitive load, etc. on trips - or, we could not do something so ridiculous.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. I was explicitly addressing road trips, not daily errands. Buy a smaller vehicle for dayly stuff and for a yearly road trip you can rent a larger vehicle than the one you use for daily errands. In the end it will save you money. What is the problem?