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this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2023
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Technology
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Agreed. By the same definition fb has been dying for almost a decade, but I'm still forced to use the messenger app since all my friends are on there.
Sorry, but you're not forced to use it unless your life literally dependend on it. You could always quit if you really wanted to.
ahhh yes, just remove myself from my social circle, why didn't I think of that?
Sorry if the thread has gotten messy but I feel you. I've deleted my Facebook account before I entered university but when I started, I had to create a new one because a lot of the online communication (announcements, group activities, etc.) happen there despite having better alternatives.
We are actually forced to use Facebook. Not in a way where there's a gun pointed at our head but rather societal norms forces us to. By deviating, people like us are called crazy or a nuisance. I don't mind being called crazy but I do want to get work done.
Well, in real life I probably do appear to be an autistic security nut to some. I don't blame people from thinking this way because I came from that place too. You just don't realize how important infosec is until you do.
I did actually manage to quit FB the website for the past two years and it was largely inconsequential, but if I quit Messenger right now I'd probably loose a good chunk of my contacts. I'm not ready to take that step yet.
A little off topic, but this is how the rest of the world feels about Microsoft/Apple/Google/Amazon/Meta/etc.
America is angry at TikTok, but every time I bring up the fact that I, as a Canadian, am forced to use American software/services, where America steals my data, I am told to "stop using it, no one is forcing you".
You cannot find a job these days that doesn't use some kind of American spyware. Microsoft Office, Gsuite, Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, AWS, Azure, the list just goes on and on..
I am not in support of TikTok stealing my data, but I hate more that America steals my data, and they can actually negotiate with my government to get me in trouble if I do something they deem bad.
Hi settinmoon!
I understand your frustration and I don't want to downplay it but I think we can do better than escalating conflicts. Consider reminding people of to be human if you have the energy for it (and I understand if you don't) or using the report button to report behaviour you think are unnice.
Thank you
I don't think using sarcasm as means to express disagreement, and provide examples so that the other party could better understand your viewpoint should be seen as escalating conflict. The other gentleman's statement although is something I disagree with, but still well with the boundaries of civil discussion, so I'm not seeing a need to report anything.
Hey, quick question about that: if I click the report button on content posted by a user of another instance, where is the report sent, Beehaw or that other instance?
I believe the answer is both. I've received reports about things happening outside of Beehaw and inside it about people that are not from Beehaw or from Beehaw reported by people outside of Beehaw and inside it.
(That's a really messy sentence but it is 2AM)
There are other platforms, plus you know, real life. Facebook isn't a necessity to maintain a social circle.
Well everyone that I have on messenger are people I met in real life, messenger is just my equivalent of text, I'd love them to all migrate to signal, but that's easier said than done.
This is what I did: I told everyone that I'd be quitting Facebook, and if they wished to remain in touch with me, they could reach me via SMS, Signal, Email etc. Some folks continued to stay in touch, some didn't, and that's how I knew who my real friends were. People who truly care about you, will find ways to stay in touch with you.
I made the first step a couple years ago which was quitting FB the website, but I still have one foot in the swamp that is messenger. I'm still working on getting my parents onto signal, so far haven't succeeded yet. Some people can quit cold turkey like what you did, but others like me take time.
if you're still on there, why would they leave?
Good question. If my goal is to get them off these platforms then quitting cold turkey myself wouldn't work as I found out when I quitted the fb website. For me, that has been mostly inconsequential, but messenger on the other hand is a harder nut to crack due to all the group chats. My best hope is probably to convince some of them to migrate over time, while lose contact with the rest when I move to a different city.
Hi d3Xt3r!
I think that the way you're denying this doesn't really follow Beehaw's ethos of being nice. Let's try to understand others rather than pushing them to act a certain way. I understand your intention but it's important to note that people have social needs. Sometimes they can be helped by social media and it can be hard to risk social isolation out of principle.
Thank you
Kindly elaborate how exactly I wasn't being nice! OP claimed that they were "forced" to use Facebook, which, I'm curious as to their choice of words, because unless their life literally dependend on it, I don't see how it's possible.
There are other social media platforms out there, and plenty of ways to stay in touch to in this digital and connected era - including using plain old SMS and email. I don't belive that it's impossible to disconnect from an evil platform such as Facebook.
The purpose of my comment was to challenge the notion that Facebook is a "necessity", and I was hoping to wean OP away from it, which can only be a good thing. The point was to spark a debate and get them to question this themselves, and reach their own conclusion. It's a good thing, not a bad thing.
I would say that if you want to spark a debate, well, you might want to reconsider that. Debates can be fun but with strangers, it tends to not be the best idea to start a conversation this way. If you want to talk about why they feel the need to use it, then go for it. If you want to convince them that you're right, well, that's not usually nice - it's confrontational rather than an open discussion.
Let's try to understand others rather than convince them that we're right. Does that make sense?
loool seems like our biggest agreement so far is that we're engaging in civil discussion... although other folks watching think otherwise
It's a fundamental problem with moderation that focuses on "being nice and always wholesome" because you wouldn't believe the things some people get upset by and they will try to argue that anything edgier than a padded cell is rule-breaking. I don't think your conversation was uncivil either. Besides, "Do not debate strangers" is an absolutely bizarre rule on a platform focused on anonymous debate and discussion.
On the topic of the discussion, I have the same problem as you where all of my friends use Facebook Messenger for chatting. Sure, you could go cold turkey and tell people to contact you through other platforms, but you'll probably lose a huge chunk of your friend circle that way. Things like group chats also make it worse because you will need the entire group to migrate, and even if they do, people don't want to juggle two groups with the same purpose. They'll abandon the one which is less convenient, which unfortunately is the one without Facebook Messenger.
I agree with most what you said here. I'd also add I personally believe I'm not in the place to tell my friends to switch platforms without them actually understanding for themselves why infosec is important. I'm trying to do some of the education but it's a slow process. Maybe when I move to a different city and lose contact most of them the transition would be automatic. In the meantime I'll need to continue using these services and try to keep my exposure to a minimum.
I try to remain optimistic about this but companies like Facebook and Microsoft actually being too big to fail is depressing. Feels like we're all being held hostage and we'll only be free if something causes these technologies to become obsolete.
Unfortunately the sad reality is most people are more than happy to trade privacy and freedom for convenience and safety. As long as people don't change there will always be bad actors trying to exploit that weakness, whether that's a company or a government. I'm pessimistic about the masses but I want to help keeping the communities of people who care alive.