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Marjorie Taylor Greene Says States Should 'Consider Seceding From the Union'
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this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2023
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Let's do a quick thought experiment and say there was an actual legal framework for states to leave the union. How do Republicans think that would go? Under no circumstances would any major city in the south go along with leaving. Republicans states are far more purple than elections would suggest due to voter suppression, election fraud, and gerrymandering. So in reality the confederate areas would just be poor rural areas. Add in the fact that the US holds the keys to all the military equipment and weapons, the confederate areas would turn into a lawless hell scape over night. And without nuclear weapons and no international agreements for defense, I'm sure Mexico and Cuba would love to reclaim some of their lost territory.
I can go on. But the main reason these idiots keep bringing this up is to suggest violence into getting their way. It's not even a viable option to even consider for them. The situation I made is a best case scenario for them to. If they tried to violently leave the union it would be couple million good old boys in trucks up against jets and tanks.
Based on international law the states would maintain their current borders, that means the urban areas would come along for the ride (IF under an actual referendum the majority was to vote in favor of separation vs the non democratic exercise that is US elections)
The movement would probably see the creation of a new Union instead of just having a bunch of small new countries, so it would be rich enough to equip itself and create an army (and those voting in favor would probably jump on the occasion to defend their new country).
Separation doesn't happen overnight, you go and fetch support from other countries so you're not left without any allies or international recognition if the vote is in favor (France was ready to recognize Quebec if any of the two referendums had been in favor of independence).
You didn't create a "best case scenario", you just created a scenario that fits your opinion on the subject.
Disclaimer: Am not from the USA, would gladly see it getting split in multiple countries just like I would gladly see Canada split in multiple countries as I think in both cases it would stop some parts of the country from slowing down progress in other parts. Ex.: If Mississippi and its citizens want to live in a third world country so much then so be it, let the rest of the US move forward.
Many states are in a much better position than many existing countries. Just because you refuse to consider it doesn't make it non feasible.
You get to have your go at a thought experiment but others you disagree with don't get to do the same?
Edit: Have yet to see someone explain why, for example, Iceland can be an independent country but it's impossible to imagine Texas or the Carolinas being independent countries except for "People who don't agree would revolt and the US would bomb the place!" Is it so hard to imagine a future where both sides agree that the union experiment didn't work and it's better to just split the country in chunks than continue with the status quo? Even for a thought experiment? Use that wonderful thing we call "imagination".
Just looking at GDP/capita you can see that there are many red States that are above many European countries. The most popular example obviously is Texas at a secessionist movement has existed there for a very very long time... They have access to the ocean, a border with Mexico, resources... If they left it would probably lead to a movement where other states would want to join them to create the "United Republics of America" (to keep with the Republican theme)...
If you go by that logic then the USA in general can't work as a country when compared with most other first world nations because all bad events always ends up being worse there than elsewhere. Guess the US should just reintegrate the British Empire then 🤷
Extreme weather no matter where in the USA is a shit show because the various levels of government are fighting each other.
Healthcare in the USA in general is a shit show compared to all other first world countries and even some developing countries.
If that's good enough to argue that Texas couldn't make it as a country then the same argument can be applied to the USA in general, can't it?
Texas is going purple, though. The many, many people there that live there and are Democrats, are they going to be cool with turning it into a totally shithole country?
Texas’ GDP is what it is because it’s part of the United States.
You’re so simple you think Texas could secede from the United States and the companies and industries that promote that GDP would stay there? If clueless was a person it’s be you.
Right, because companies don't exist outside the USA.
Quora...
That's your source? Why not link to a comment thread on 4chan while you're at it?
And I'm the one redefining dumb somehow?
Dude, you're using Quora as a source and you're calling me out of my depth? Are you serious?
I don’t care about thought exercisesUnless it's yours 🤷
Ain't that the whole point of common law? There's no legal framework -> go to court -> set the precedent -> there's your framework
Separatists have to support each others, my nation's separatist movement is older than anyone alive today. If some US states feel like they would be better off outside the union then good on them, the super nation experiment has run its course, it's the same as empires of ages past and I don't see anyone here defending the British Empire and being against Canada's Confederation or saying that Haiti should still be a French colony... Weird how hard it is to apply equal standards to everyone 🤷
In Texas v. White's ruling:
There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States.Scalia's opinion on the subject was shared as an answer to a letter so it has no legal precedence.
Sorry if I gave an example of a state that already has agreed borders and that actually compares to rich nations like I was asked 🤷
https://lemmy.world/comment/3366019
You’re a dumbass. Neither of the people in this thread you’re replying to asked you and your reply to the person who did is stupid. Texas’ GDP is what it is because it’s part of the United States.
You’re so simple you think Texas could secede from the United States and the companies and industries that promote that GDP would stay there? If clueless was a person it’s be you.
Can't wait to see the petrochemical industry pack their things and start extracting Texas' resources from outside Texas!
Hey everyone, this idiot I’m replying to can’t even read. Literally from the link:
Clearly
Other nations sell their petrol exploited by private businesses in USD, other nations are rich from that exploitation.
Texas doing the same thing though? Nah mate, impossible!
And no, "texbux" isn't an issue as anyone who knows even a tiny bit about economy and politics would tell you, no country can prevent another from using their currency as theirs. That's why eleven nations other than the USA have USD as their money and the number is even higher when counting countries that peg their currency to the USD's value.
Same for the Euro which is legal tender in some places outside Europe.
Maybe you should go check if someone talked about that somewhere on Quora.
K bye! 😘
Just reinforcing that you can’t read, huh? Literally in the same link already provided:
Sorry, but wrong on many points. If the conservative states were ever going to leave the Union it would have to be a quick transition as a longer process ensures that it won't happen.
One: The US as a whole is far more homogeneous than European democracies. It's not like in Europe where you can drive a few hours and find a whole different language and culture. Those asking for a separation are a extreme minority even within their states. Even with them being in power, the moment they actually move towards separation they literally will be murdered in a few days.
Two: during the slow negotiation for separation, red states would be responsible for their debts. States like Mississippi and Kentucky would have to back out of the separation because they'd become Haiti (economically) once the separation was complete.
Three: even if they peacefully negotiated with blue states, violence would break out in urban areas because red states wouldn't be leaving to create their own American style for of democracy. It would be a Christan Nationalist oligarchy. They want this separation to reinstate slavery, women's suffrage, and genicide of all LGBTQ+ individuals. This one is inevitable regardless how the separation goes. But a slow separation just gives those urban areas time to prepare for war.
Also remember that most red states are welfare states that need federal funding to just exist and on their own they would be broke and unable to provide basic needs like water and electricity .
Most of those states would collapse at the next hurricane that hits them. Florida had to declare a natural disaster just from 1 hurricane. Hurricane Katrina would leave Louisiana a third world country if not for federal government funds.
It's also like they can't even conceive the notion that most of the left and even a good few liberals are armed and train regularly and also live out in podunk.