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Suddenly seeing more hexbear posts. Did we re-federate with them?
(sh.itjust.works)
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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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How do you define far right? I usually think of it as pro authoritarian. And that seems to be commonly true on hexbear. Though they don't necessarily acknowledge that authoritarian regimes like Russia and North Korea are authoritarian.
Far right, as opposed to neoliberal, means fascist to me, where fascists:
Hold reactionary social views — are racist and sexist and homophobic, etc.
Support capitalism and despise socialists — see what happens to socialists under every fascist regime in human history. Hitler was in bed with big business, and some of the first people he put in concentration camps were socialists, communists, and labor organizers. In Indonesia, more than a million communists were murdered with US backing, a mass killing detailed in The Jakarta Method and a documentary called The Act of Killing. Socialists were also slaughtered in Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Argentina, and Bolivia. This is incidentally why the US so often supports fascist regimes — they kill socialists.
And yes, are authoritarian, but being authoritarian is not what makes them fascist. What makes them fascist is that they use authoritarianism in service of the above positions.
Than I think we disagree on the defining traits of far right.
Is Cuba far right?
They just passed the most comprehensive pro-LGBTQ rights package in history.
Cuba doesn't allow you to create a pro-capitalism party and start passing around leaflets saying "we should sell all our resources to American businesses," because if they allowed this, the CIA would spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year funding and training that party, installing agents into the leadership, co-opting local movements, publishing newsletters full of slander and propaganda, and doing who knows what else.
Is Cuba China or the russian federation? Because we both know those are the nations depicted here.
the claim was that far right = authoritarianism.
Cuba is authoritarian because they have to be. Allende's Chile was not authoritarian, and guess what happened? The US coup'd Allende and installed a fascist dictator who threw socialists out of helicopters and tortured them to death in stadiums. The PKI under Aidit in Indonesia were a peaceful socialist movement. What happened? Aidit was killed, and over a million Indonesian socialists were rounded up and butchered with American backing.
As for the Russian Federation, yes, their government is right wing. Putin is a homophobic capitalist reactionary. If you say this on Hexbear, you will find that everyone agrees. Go try it if you doubt me.
As for China, the more you learn about China and its government the less you'll want to give a simplistic take about China in a thread like this — but the short answer is no, they are not far right. They have some Confuscian cultural baggage but are increasingly progressive on social issues, and after decades of state-sanctioned capitalism to pull in foreign investment and evade the sort of economic warfare that hamstrung Cuba and the USSR, they are, at least ostensibly, adopting an increasingly anti-capitalist posture. As for Xinjiang, again, it's a complicated topic and I'm not an expert, but I do know that a lot of the worst claims have been demonstrated to be bullshit, from sources like Adrien Zenz and Radio Free Asia. Even the UN concedes there is no program of mass killing or organ harvesting. It's definitely still bad, but there's enough bullshit that I really don't want to wade into it here.
I am used to this definition of "far right":
"Far-right politics, or right-wing extremism, refers to a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian,"
authoritarian towards what purpose
towards being radically conservative and ultra-nationalist.
I make no distinction on authoritarian ideals.
"authoritarian ideals"
communists don't want to be authoritarian, but the alternative is to die.
You do know that being authoritarian in order to be anti ultra national makes no sense right?
you're the one who came up with that reasoning. I said they are authoritarian to avoid being destroyed by capitalists.
Yes, please let us all forget what you typed not 20 min ago.
I was talking about far-right governments
Yes, and China and russia are far right due to the authoritative government. I don't care why the government is authoritarian, oppression is oppression.
Was the Civil War far right? Was Reconstruction far right?
Oh and here it is, the American shit pulled out of storage.
YES! The world looks upon your fetid empire of cheese and right wing politics and weeps.
you're dodging the point so blatantly here. Was it inherently right wing to use violence to force the confederates to free their slaves and disband their secessionist army, and then to use political repression to interfere, however ineffectively, with southern efforts to keep their way of life alive after the war. Was the authoritarian means they used – warfare and political repression — inherently right wing, even though the objective was to free enslaved people.
yes, I know that many in the union were racist too, and grant and sherman participated in the genocides of american indian tribes, and all of that. that's not what we're talking about though, we're talking about authoritarianism, and whether authoritarianism specifically is what makes something right wing.
You are dodging this entire topic. I will not discuss any USA history, and I stand by my statement. Authoritarian is far right, all of these examples were authoritarian actions where taken are by the current definition far right.
Is Cuba right wing? Yes or no. You dodged that question right at the start and changed the subject to China and Russia. Is Cuba right wing.
Yes. Since the leadership has transitioned to a family rule and has become authoritarian in protecting the brother, it by current definition would be far right.
Edit: also you are confusing me with another person, I was the one that pointed out you cherry picking your nations.
I'm speechless tbh. I don't know what I can say to someone who calls Cuba right wing. You are inventing your own language.
Read the current definition and dispute it then. They if I am not mistaken might have a new leader as of 2021, this would go a long way to prove they are not an authoritarian government.
the ideological commitment of the Cuban government is to achieve the equality of human beings, by abolishing capitalism and fighting bigotry. America, just across the water, has made it necessary for them to adopt a degree of authoritarianism to protect themselves. It is actually fucking absurd to call them right wing. Take care, I don't want to continue this.
No America comparison, do the work. I believe in you.
It's not a comparison, I am saying America is hostile to Cuba, and Cuba adopts authoritarian measures to counter American subversion. America has been trying to topple the Cuban government and starve the population for decades. You have reddit disease where you're really condescending despite not knowing anything.
Cool, now we have reddit in the mix. What would you say to the fact I have never once posted on reddit?
I am saying (and asking you to disprove) that any country that is authoritarian is by definition far right (as the left/right spectrum is defined by the use of authoritarian practices or lack there of).
If you're real people who genuinely support socialism, you should know you're making a lot of people hate socialism.
That's just one of the things I truly resent your garbage, authoritarian community for.
That's not how it works. Your beliefs are your own. You either want workers to control production, or you want owners to control production. You decide that based on your own moral convictions and understanding of the world.
Yes, just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore my point.
you don't have a point. your point is that we're annoying and people don't like us.