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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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Antiwork
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Sorry, you are only attacking the teamsters here?
Not a single word against the fucking company that would have done nothing and would have changed nothing in the future if not for the teamsters pushing for change?
Seriously, this sort of absolutist shit is stupid. So what do we do? We all stop working unless our work conditions are 100% perfect? It’s like people who constantly call for a general strike to change society. Sure, if you’re rich and can afford to stop working, that’s great for you. The rest of us fight for the changes we can get.
Straw man bs.
How about we quit working while our conditions can be deadly.
Are you seriously going to argue that that is unreasonable? Cmon.
If you delete the word ‘Texas’ many of us would probably just see this as unfortunate. If you’re over the age of 30 you probably grew up without ANY air conditioning, even where the temperature exceeded 100F a few days a year.
I’ve never been to Texas, so maybe this place is more like the Sahara than the east coast US.
You almost definitely did not do constant work outside, or especially in an oven, when it was 100F even in your made up world where there was no AC 30 years ago. At 100F 30% humidity you take breaks in the shade every 20 minutes for 20 minutes or you just die as a human. That humidity goes up 10% or that temp (lets say in an unairconditioned truck) goes up 10 degrees, and you literally cannot sweat away the heat, your body has no actual way to cool itself off no matter how much water you drink or how cold that water is.
Maybe my area was poorer than average over something, but we had no AC and I didn’t know anybody who did. If it was 100F, we went to a matinee because it was air conditioned. Mailmen still delivered even on those days. Granted, that is probably on average less weight.
But as I said, I’m not in Texas either.
Well he didn't stop working and look at where that got him.
You’ve got bad takes, bro.
A man is dead.
No shit and it’s not the first time. The union exists to progress its workers rights. Progress is progress. Perfect is the enemy of good, compadre. Fuck.
They could have gotten more if they had the guts to strike.
Wtf is this thread. I will never understand people who will try to justify shit like this. What does the average person think they're getting out of fighting against better working conditions and higher pay? This is why it's so funny when Americans say they aren't affected by propaganda. Only other countries have that.
Joe Biden told them the contract is good and historic, so it must be true.
I called it social murder. If there was any justice UPS would be nationalized and its management put in prisons.
Why would UPS be nationalized when we have the USPS?
To remove the profit motive.
To teach Amazon, DHS, and FedEx the lesson not to abuse their workers. Also Dejoy is shutting down the only Post Office in IB, and trying to shut down the USPS, so we really don't have the USPS
Lol you have the worldview of a 12 year old.. for your sake I hope you are 12
Yeah, literally, what did Teamsters do wrong, here?
So UPS will only put ac in new trucks, sometime next year, and possibly get them to the hottest parts of the country, and old trucks will get "cabin fans" (?).
I know negotiations must be really difficult. I know everyone is relying on their jobs and paychecks to survive. But it seems like too often these corporations get away with half measures and vague promises because even when we revoke our labor, they're still the ones in control. Workers from a company like UPS seem like they should have more control than most though. Shutting down deliveries across the US indefinitely is a pretty big threat. So maybe they could have gotten better results.
The responsibility ultimately lies with UPS, though
The union has a responsibility to protect workers from UPS.
This comment acknowledges that UPS is doing the oppression, yet still somehow blames someone else
Amazing
The Teamsters share the blame for selling out instead of striking for safe working conditions. Deal with it.
I may agree that they share the blame, but their share is significantly smaller.
No, they have a responsibility to fight for protections for workers. They can’t implement it, UPS has too. Put your emphasis on UPS.
A responsibility they failed because they gave up the fight instead of striking.
Again, it’s UPS fault ultimately. It’s absurd to blame the union for not forcing UPS to do something over UPS not doing it in the first place.
The union exists to force the company to do anything in the first place! That's their only job! If UPS murders drivers it's because the union didn't strike and force them to stop.
More drivers will die because they didn't strike and force UPS to make its fleet safe.
You’re blaming the Union for UPS killing drivers.
Take a step back and think about that.
I'm blaming the union for not striking.
Why do they need to strike in the first place? Because of UPS. You're falling into the trap.
What trap? You said it yourself, they need to strike.
And they didn't.
They needed to strike in the first place because UPS was doing something wrong. You're not putting your emphasis on the ultimate party that is in the wrong. You're attacking the middleman which is the only reason the workers have any power at all. Either you're falling for the trap like UPS and other big businesses want you to, or you're anti-union and are arguing in bath faith.
I'm attacking class collaborators for getting a bad deal when they could have fought for a better one.
Don't act like unions have to be above criticism. They need to be critiqued so they can improve.
They aren't above criticism, they are above blame when the Employer is to blame. If you can be confused for Anti-Union, your tactics need to change. This is the exact garbage being pushed to spread apathy to workers forming unions. Teamsters got a lot for UPS drivers.
They share the blame when they collaborate with the employer and act as the company's PR and HR departments.
The anti-union and splitter interpretation of this reality is that this is a reason to not join the union or to form a splitter org (with blackjack and hookers etc), but I think it's the opposite; this is a reason to agitate the union membership to transform it from within and to push the union to abandon class collaboration. It's still a labor organization even if it is captured by corporate and nationalist interests. Unlike idiots who think the Democratic Party can be changed from within, there's historical and materialist foundation for this tactic. The union needs to be taken back, not abandoned.
You can't just ignore the fact that the union leadership pushed for a bad contract. Nor can you ignore the fact that every other interested party, from the corporate media to the literal President of the US, pushed for this contract.
Critical support, not blind support.
I disagree entirely, but youre entitled to your opinion.
Iirc older trucks didnt, the upcoming trucks they have coming in should. I dont think the company has made a wide switchover to the new trucks yet.
I believe the transition starts next year. It was a very recent initiative. Old trucks are supposed to at leat get fans.
The new trucks aren't even out yet. They didn't have AC for decades bro. You seem to be downplaying this for some reason. Literal decades.
Im not downplaying anything. Im just answering if the trucks have AC yet. What makes you think that Im siding with UPS of all companies?
Its worse if you cant sweat due to saturation of the air. The main benefit of the fan is to blow off sweat off the body so it can generate new sweat beads