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Agreed Islam is an idea not a race.
(midwest.social)
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this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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I mean, do you think Islamophobia is rooted in theological disputes? The Christian nationalists who find common ground between Catholics, evangelicals, Eastern Orthodox, and Jews hate Muslims because of their almost indistinguishable tenets of faith?
Yep. While technically being an Islamophobe isn’t racist, odds are the reason one is an Islamophobe has very little to do with them being Islamic.
I hate Islam. I'm not racist.
I also hate any religion that states unequivocally in their holy book that certain classes of people are less than others.... which is a core tenet of Islamic and Christian beliefs.
I couldn't actually tell you if it's in the Tanakh, but it very well wouldn't surprise me.
Any positive experience and interaction I have with a Muslim is in spite of their beliefs and their religion being a bit backwards in places.
Edit: I also hate any religion that preaches that people are inherently evil or unworthy of salvation...... that shit is toxic af.
Also, the hateful person does not care to distinguish between race, ethnicity, religion, or whatever other aspect they decide to hate. They have classified some attributes as making people not like them and hateable. The framework of analysis you are using is immaterial to the racist. That is, they do care that they are Islamic, just not with any subtlety.
I'm content to shit all over your religion regardless of your ethnicity.
Neat. What about the aforementioned religious nutjobs? You think they're engaged in sincere criticism of specific textual and cultural dogma? Because generally it looks like they're just being prejudiced assholes.
No different. Their religions are all trash. Do you have one? It's trash too. The only culture of religion is to do what you're told and not ask questions. That's trash.
That wasn't the question.
We know your motivations. What about those religious nutjobs?
What do you mean? That kind are vocal about their motivations and are more often than not quite brazen in their actions. To them their religion is just a vehicle for their hate. They don't hide it. They've been out for years now.
'Bigots love admitting they're bigots,' says someone confused.
Fool belives someone is watching over them say an idiot who refuses to grow up.
I'm talking about what you said, and you're making shit up about me as a person.
There's nothing bigoted about having equal disdain for all religions. Why are you so defensive? Sounds like you believe in something that isn't there. If not why are you wasting your time with me? Got feelings or something?
We are specifically talking about bigots. People who are not exactly even-handed or intellectually honest in their criticism of any religion. You are saying that surely they must be open and overt in their beliefs. I counter, plainly fucking not. Quite often even mentioning Islam is just an excuse to talk shit about the middle east and anyone from the middle east.
When someone spits stereotypes about Afghanis, but uses a religious label rather than a national or cultural label - they're just saying "Islam's not a race!" as an excuse. They might not be saying anything about Islam. And what little they say is probably just nonsense regardless. It's not like they care.
The root question was: do you think Islamophobia is rooted in theological disputes?
The fact you have good-faith criticism aplenty is unrelated to their bad-faith vitriol. Bad-faith abuse only works because it resembles good-faith arguments.
I'm explaining this to you because I give a shit about addressing bigotry. If you'd only recognize that prejudice when it's brazen, loud, and sincere, you need to disabuse yourself of that comforting fiction.
Uh, you sure about the Jews there bud? I don't recall many Christian nationalists having a particularly high opinion of Judaism. In fact I'd say they hate Jews more than they hate muslims
Have you never tried a Hebrew National? Shit is lit.
They fucking love Israel, though.
Go on. Tell me that's not directly about Judaism, as a religion. Tee it up for a direct comparison.
It's not directly about Judaism. It's directly about their Christian belief that the Temple needs to be rebuilt in Jerusalem for Jesus to return.
And then all the Jews get thrown into Hell.
They care about Israel because it's a tool for them. The Jews can go fuck themselves once they've done their job as far as they're concerned.
Uh huh. And their opinions about Islam aren't really about Islam; they're just a tool for talking about brown people. Thanks for playing along.
You literally said:
And I told you that and why. So I'm not sure what your deal is now.
... what's the next sentence, after that.
Again- you asked for something. I gave you what you asked. Now you're bitching about it.
No, I'm using a comparison for illustrative purposes. This is a common rhetorical device.
I'm not even bitching about anything - I thanked you for doing as asked. But I didn't actually need the comparison spelled out, because I was spelling it out, in that request. 'It's not directly about either religion' is the point I was making.
People aren't mind readers nor should you treat them like morons. Say your piece and make your point. This kind of antagonistic semi-"friendly" shit will get you banned for longer next time.
I mean, it is the same for everyone, we all know what happens when a religion you're not part of takes control. Religious people are simply hypocritical about it, but they're sort of justified. The Catholics took over the USA due to immigration and it worried the protestants back then, it could very well happen with another religion.
edit: a word
Protestants are Christian. Did you mean Catholics?
Yes, good catch!
In my opinion the comparison to anti catholic sentiment is pretty apt. “Yeah it’s not racism. we’re just worried that they have an allegiance to a foreign pope before their own country and also Irish and Italians don’t count as white. But yeah no racism here”
I think the OP is wrong and dumb.
When the hell are you talking about?
The shift from a Protestant majority to a more diverse religious landscape, including Catholicism, began in the mid-19th century.
People can agree and hate each other. Both Taiwan and China agree that there is one government for the Chinese people. Two people can both in love with the same person, and an both believe that the person is amazing and should be dating exclusively. I have gotten into a few spates with my wife about how to raise our children and we both agree that we love our children and want the best. I had a roommate once where we both agreed the dishes should be done every night by one of us.
-James Baldwin