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Hey could we defederate with exploding-heads.com/
(sh.itjust.works)
The instance seems to be mostly right wing trolls. I know defederating is unpopular but I don't think much is to be lost in this case and it can save the mods some headaches.
Edit: the response on exploding-heads.com to my reporting of transphobia. Courtesy of the "second in command"
Defederation should be the LAST and FINAL option. From what I understand, this is a small instance that isn't causing much trouble outside of their instance. Block them on your own! I'm on lemmy.world, but personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post. I don't think we should start goimg around defederating communities that we disagree with, even though their opinions are shit, vile, offensive, and disgusting. Leave it up and block them on your own.
100%
I don't like how r/conservative handles their moderation but I don't think their subreddit should be nuked.
But things like Men Going Their Own Way, and The Donald or any other subreddits promoting violence and direct hate deserve removal (or de-federation). De-federation should be used as a tool of last resort. For places who are turning to actual violence or outright hatred.
I cannot stress how strongly I disagree with exploding-head's stance on Trans rights and racism but if someone has an odious opinion on gender affirming care or trans athletes then they should be met by people who counter their ideas. Simply cutting them off into isolation provides zero chance of changing their minds.
I understand that some people have no interest in debating people who disagree with them, and that is entirely ok. Block any community or poster that you find offensive but defederation is not something that should be used regularly.
I think given their hateful content it is irresponsible to essentially platform their content by remaining federated. Do you really feel the need to stay up to date on the latest transphobic meme and covid conspiracy theories?
I don't feel a need to stay up to date, no. But reading about what those idiots think doesn't hurt my ego or ruin my day. I just like to have an idea of what the "enemy" is thinking. I don't want to live in an echo chamber. The sub isn't even THAT bad compared to what I was expecting. They've got some gross posts, don't get me wrong. But it's not NEARLY bad enough to warrant defederating. Most of the posted content is moderate-right. Defederating is silly in this case.
Removing those that wish people were dead for existing doesn't create an echo chamber.
If they have users calling for violence and those users are not being banned that is one thing. If they have odious opinions on trans healthcare that's completely different.
De-federation should be used for instances that promote literal violence. Blocking should be used on communities and posters who have opinions that you can't stand.
We get it, you're straight.
Is it not a much more powerful message if the fediverse as a whole down votes the stuff into oblivion. If they are isolated it becomes an us vs them game with them playing the victim.
When they see that by and large they are ignored and downvoted they might grow up and realize they are acting like dicks.
Tbh that sounds like how people are pushed into extremism. When an open dialog is kept, there is at least a chance a thought provoking discussion would change a mind, even if it's just one mind. I don't really know, I don't mind defederating in this instance ftmp, nothing of value for me there so whatever.
I guess these ppl are already extremists, so 🤷
I agree with this. Isolating communities that have odious beliefs only lead to those beliefs being echoed and intensified in their small spaces, and hence become more extreme over time. It’s not “nipping the issue in the bud” like many people seem to think it is, it’s the complete opposite. Past a certain line we definitely should cut ties, but I guess it’s debatable where that line should be drawn.
I think that, in these instances, there is a sort of nuance and humanness that is kinda glossed over.
Its not really that hard to imagine ending up like that. Im not apologizing for them, I'm just saying that we are in a constant fight with our own biology and alot of stuff depends on circumstance.
What these people, apparently, need is some lsd or smth cause they are all stuck in their heads. They hate themselves. It's all projection and protection of something they don't even understand.
Should we just let them wallow in their own shit? What is our duty to them, if any? I'm not really sure tbh. But I know pretending that it's not real ain't gonna fix shit.
It's not a matter of the opinions being unpopular and thus toothless. By federating with them we are giving them a larger platform to get their message out to those who will believe it.
You don't see their communities unless you subscribe. If their users are posting in our communities and breaking the rules of the communities then their posts will be deleted and the users banned.
There are moderation options other than de-federation. De-federation is an option of last resort to protect the greater community from violence, abuse and crime. De-federation is not a tool for sending a political message.
You can personally block that entire server and you will never see anything from them.
You see their shit if you sort by new. Are you like a kbin user? Maybe shit works differently for you.
My username shows @Difficult_Bit_1339 to you, so we're on the same instance. If it had @lemmy.world then I would be a user on the lemmy.world instance.
If you choose 'All' instead of 'Local' or 'Subscribed' then you see everything that exists, yes. I wouldn't recommend that since it is an incredibly spammy experience. That being said, you can block any community like so:
They know they're acting like dicks, they're openly proud and revel in it and it's a core, fundamental part of who they are. Hateful bigots such as them don't have any interest in changing who they are or improving their behaviour, they will just shift the goalposts and double down every time they are challenged. It's been proven time and time again that they are not looking to be reasonable.
"personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post"
The shit they post is the gateway to worse things for some. You're still free to go check what's going on over there, it doesn't mean they should have access to our space.
so you're basically saying "there's nothing wrong with this, but let's ban it anyway because it may be a little wrong in the future"?
Where did I say there's nothing wrong with what they say?
In the OP you've got the perfect example: "I'm not racist but I can point to BLM and criticize it..." that's exactly how you plant the seed that leads some people to racism, with that "but".
I'll share it again and again: https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g
Communities keep deciding not to react to alt-right users until it's too late to get rid of them.
..... are you saying you can't criticize BLM?
also that yt link lol
i probably already watched it but will again cuz i remember liking it.
upon rewatching a few minutes of it, i can see there's a few fallacies here and there but doens't mean it's wrong.
final edit: wow does he make a shitfuckton of assumptions to just say "if we allow jordan peterson to have a youtube channel we're killing poor black people"
No, I'm saying that it's exactly the way the alt-right opens doors to more extreme opinions. "I don't think X but...". They keep moving the window of what is and isn't acceptable this way.
Let them participate here and that's exactly what they'll keep doing until the problem is too major to control because they've taken over (see /r/Canada even before /r/metacanada was banned) or a mod puts their big pants on and say enough is enough and bans their instance, but then you're still stuck with all the users that got converted.
I see. Maybe I'm biased because the very few times I've seen them posting here I found them to be pretty funny and liked their presence. Their tactless way of having fun is somewhat endearing in a sense. I'm their polar opposite in terms of political ideology and completely disagree with all of their political points but that doesn't make it not fun to see them hopping around being little nodes of comedic angst.
It's already started:
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/287275
Extremists are very good at "just making jokes" and "just asking questions" and maybe to you that's what they're doing, but doing the joke opens the door to "just talk about X for real though" and suddenly people are arguing and you'll have some regular people that will start believing there might be some truth to what the extremists are saying and the spiral begins. They might never reach the deep end, they'll take what they're open to. Someone single and insecure might just adhere to the incel stuff and not the racism, someone who just lost their job when a black person got to keep theirs might adhere to the racism but not to the anti-women stuff...
"JAQing off", as I've seen it be referred to. It's always in bad faith.
also the long post on the op is incompatible with my adhd and i have been unable to read it the multiple times i've opened it lol. wallatext
Yes exactly. Just like there are idiots in real life, we ignore them and move on. Everyone is entitled to an opinion even if we disagree with it. Sure people can spout some nonsense devoid of facts we can down vote if thats the case .
You might disagree with someone on politics but like the same sports team for example. There are humans on either side so like in real life we can get along and don't need to agree on everything.
If something is illegal or its hate speech or something like that then report and block the user and the content.
If you don't like a community you can block it but if we shut off instances all of the time I can guarantee you the fediverse will just turn into isolated echo chambers and we'll all be forced back to corporate walled gardens.
If we can coexist in real life we can coexist here.
We need our views challenged to grow. Being corrected is a good thing thats how we learn. Life is short at the end of the day let's not try to take it too serious.
❤️
holy shit, how do I even begin to explain that you can't just "ignore" Nazis and racists and transphobes and letting them keep their platform
you do understand that they hurt real fucking people, right????
I don't see why we need to coexist with people who are against coexistence with certain groups of people.
Yes
Anarchist, but hey you tried...
Ancaps are not real anarchists. They are neo-feudalists at best and nazis wearing the skin of an anti-authoritarian at worst.
Yes because anarchists traditionally love China. /s Get real
Dipass, I already answered you and ur little gotcha question. Get off your alt and touch grass.
Yeah the treatment of the uighurs is tantamount to genocide. Not sure what kinda gotcha this was supposed to be.
you're an idiot if you think China is communist
the entire country is just capitalism with extra steps
no
I had a professor once who's thing was Russian history from the 16th Century through WWII, and various other connected things. Who said once that the founders of the Paris Commune are rolling in their graves, to see what became of their movement. Side note He was kinda Conservative but he gave me the reading list that turned me against Capitalism, "If you're going to read left wing sources... I can at least point you at the good ones"
Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't my friend. Do you think all communists think the same shit.
Lol touch grass
I agree all the way.