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this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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Ask Lemmy
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The defederation topic and how it impacts me.
I'm an adult, if I find something offensive I'll either block it or ignore it. However, not giving me the choice offends me and IMHO goes against what Lemmy and the fediverse was suppose to deliver.
I understand (and read) the reason's why site owners defederate and I view it largely as "Lemmy isn't mature enough to support more granular blocking - yet", so I wait patiently and hope this trend towards defederation doesn't turn into a powertrip by site owners "for the good of their users...."
Imo, defederation isn't the exile sentence everyone is making out to be. It is used like you said as a bandaid as a moderation tool, but really just about "anyone" can boot up an instance and have complete agency on which Instances are visible.
I'd be more concerned if all the big instances ganged up together to form a whitelist club, but this this is a more complex discussion, and there is no sign of it happenning.
There's already shared bannlists in the works.
You'd still be able to join the instances directly, or join an instance that doesn't follow the big "whitelist club".
Right now instances are already split across some lines, and you need accounts on an instance of a certain "group" in order to access the content from those instances... and that's a feature, not a bug.
Depends on the reason for me. I totally get why .world blocked those 3 communities (not a defed I know but still) given the possible legal issues and given the admin isn't a lawyer and can't afford to retain a high powered legal team. Blocking those communities until they have a legal opinion just seems like good sense to me.
The hexbear thing - they're evangelical totalitarians politically. They believe what they believe and everything they talk about revolves around that and they need you to hear it, again and again and again. It's just mentally exhausting dealing with them, especially when a large part of their freely admitted m.o. is brigading/dog-piling.
Being fedded with lemmynsfw didn't bother me, I hardly ever saw anything from it as I rarely feel the need to go on 'All'. I understand there were some anime jailbait issues? That's probably a pretty good reason to defed from an instance.
So, and this is admittedly all from my perspective, I haven't seen any overbearing uses of defedding.
And I think people need to realise defedding is not like banning. On reddit if a sub got banned it was gone. On Lemmy if one instance defeds from another, the other instance is still there. You still have the choice to view it.
Were? Ok, maybe I’m old but I’m freaked out by how young some of the people look on nsfw communities and have stopped subscribing. Reddit had people posting that didn’t make me feel gross
It's a country based thing:
The combination of instance owner, server location, and client location, determines whether something is legal or not.
The instance isn't yours. It doesn't belong to the users. You are graced with being allowed to use it. The owner of the instance is the one that gets into legal trouble because you want to post your loli furry pictures to the world. If I ran my own instance I would be restricting content as well. And federating with an instance that hosts that shit forces them to also host that content.
Illegal stuff? Sure block it, I totally respect the need to CYA.
Blocking lemmit.online 'cause it's a bot, which yields low content and pollutes "All"? Block lemmynsfw, cause of NSFW content? ... well, as an adult I'd prefer I could make that choice for myself and have it governed by my own tolerances.
The instance owner is still the one responsible for curating whatever All feed they publish.
As an adult, you can use an app like LiftOff, that allows you to merge feeds from multiple instances. There could be more options, but they're on the pending features list.
I get the feeling their argument wasn't 100% over illegal content (but I do agree - you shouldn't expect a bunch of individuals to try to fight potential legality issues, I certainly don't), part of it may have been in regards to all of the other reasons defederation occurs. Such as LW removing piracy communities for legal reasons, as opposed to Beehaw defederating from LW/SHIJW over the open registration nature of those instances.
Thankfully my instance is mine, so I get to make those decisions for myself. Unfortunately I'm not surprised though that there seems to be a bit of a split between people who evangelized Lemmy as the "where Reddit can't decide to block content" (which I saw a lot of, during the sub protests) and then on the outside that's exactly how it looks.
Telling people to host their own instance, or to have multiple accounts on multiple instances is probably the equivalent of the same thing being discussed here as the Linux evangelists who go "Well just use FreeCAD" (to use an example from further above) when they say they use Windows because they're involved in professional CAD work.
There's a lot of nuances between Lemmy, Federation, and The Fediverse as a whole that gets left out when people introduce others to it and I've seen a lot of cases where that causes precisely this issue - it's sold as a one size fits all solution when that couldn't be further from the truth.
I have no stance (I'm not here to tell other admins how to run their instances) on the subject of the matter in this comment chain, but that's how I see it when I try to "play devil's advocate" and look at it from different lenses.