806
Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron
(arstechnica.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
806 points (100.0% liked)
Technology
71396 readers
2561 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
TLDR: Windows is now the bloatware.
Windows is getting shittier and shittier each version. Using a MacOS, even with all its flaws it's such a clean experience compared to it.
But then I'd have to support Macintosh's overpriced garbage.
Overpriced? Yes, garbage? No. The MacBooks are far beyond the close competition in both quality and performance. Apple Silicon is a game changer for the industry and it's making Intel and AMD look very bad.
The close competition? For the price of a MacBook you could get a beefy ass PC.
A MacBook is very good at what it does. If you tried to spec out a laptop/portable computer for similar tasks, the Mac would be pretty competitive and have longer battery life.
Once you try to do anything that apple didn't intend for it to do (play games, for example) or if we turn to desktops then the value proposition goes away pretty quickly
That’s not apples to apples. If you spec a windows laptop, good luck getting the same performance and the same battery life and portability at the same price. Also build quality, screen, speaker and trackpad quality will likely not be at apples level from the windows machine. If that’s what you’re in the market for Apple machines are not bad. For instance a photographer/videographer working on location, truly amazing for them. Should everyone buy one? No. Are there a 100 better ways to spend the money if you don’t have that specific Apple favoured use case. Sure, e.g. your mum doesn’t need a MacBook Pro for Facebook / Amazon browsing and your cousin shouldn’t buy a Mac Studio for gaming. But use cases do exist, and for those people Macs are genuinely a good proposition.
I'm willing to bet you could find a laptop with a really nice track pad, screen and camera if you really wanted to for half the price. Everything "quality" about Mac is double the price just for having an apple logo on it.
Go on then…
The issue I have with non-Apple laptops is that comparable performance requires an active cooling system that is often distractingly loud. I am willing and able to pay extra for a platform that lets me focus, and lets me watch some Netflix without having to crank the volume to drown out the fans. Then the all-metal exterior is also quite durable, the trackpad and speakers are top-notch, the Pro comes with that XDR screen, and the battery life is hard to beat. Plus I can take it to a nearby Apple store if I'm having a problem with it, instead of having to mail it to a regional support shop and wait potentially for weeks without the device. It's more than the sum of its parts--and that is reflected in the resale value as well. Some Windows laptops will do specific things better (chiefly game support), but I didn't find anything that was as good overall as an M1 Macbook Pro, and I say that as someone who had never owned a Mac of any kind, despite using PCs since the early 1980s and building them for the last 25 years.
I would have preferred a laptop that could run Windows or Linux, but I just couldn't find anything that was a complete package like the M1 MBP.
You cannot understand the quality of apple unless you use it as a daily driver.
Are they a shitty company? Yes.
Do they design their products to be hard to repair? Yes.
Do they provide half baked products? No.
Can you find product that matches the performance, battery life, build quality, and weight? I don’t think so.
Nothing will come close with similar build quality. The XPS 13+ is probably the closest competitor to the 13" pro/air. But it has a 12th gen Intel CPU which will get awful battery life in anything but the most ideal scenarios.
With an Apple silicon Mac you have to try to get bad battery life, with an Intel Machine I can't get it to have good battery life and do anything other than sit idle. AMD will come close, but few manufactures make a premium AMD laptop.
A beefy ass desktop that weights about 15kg and eats as much energy as a microwave when gaming. For performance per watt nothing beats the Apple Silicon.
What you using all that power for? Gaming? Not likely on Mac, Machine learning? Also not likely with that GPU... Maybe a Photoshop machine? Enjoy that non expandable ram.
For a nice dev machine I get it, nice battery life and watch Netflix on a screen, but it's not like you can't get a same performance machine for the same/lesser price with Dell/Thinkpad and use Linux...
That’s a rather narrow set of use cases. For example, they are audio and video editing powerhouses. Audio in particular is exceptional because of core audio in MacOS.
And upgradable components aren’t something 95% of the population is worried about. Max out what you need when you buy it. My last Mac lasted 8 years with no trouble. And by the time I was ready to upgrade, the bottleneck was mainly the cpu, which in a case of 8 years, that means a new motherboard, and at that point you might as well upgrade the whole computer, as standards have changed and updated.
I have a colleague that spends 90% of their time out of the office on trains and on airplanes. They need to connect to an RDP server, answer emails, and do some InDesign work. Our IT dept manager has the same attitude as you and will only issue them a beefy laptop that weighs twice as much as a macbook and has half the battery. My colleague has tried to explain that compute power is not their primary concern but the IT manager won't listen because he doesn't have the perspective to imagine what it's like to do someone else's job.
As an IT worker, it is more likely that they don't want to deal with the headache of enterprise management of a Mac for just one person.
Just buying a Mac is easy, setting that Mac up to be monitored, managed, and secured centrally is a whole other issue. Especially when none of their current infrastructure supports Mac, because why would it when no one current uses one.
The user is worried about what type of device works best for their specific use. The IT manager is worried about what type of device do I have a licences for anti virus, what device can I audit security settings remotely, what device can I centrally manage updates, etc..
That being said, for personal use there is definitely a niche for Apple products. It just isn't so clear cut when it comes to using those devices in an enterprise setting. And speaking from experience just one person never stays at one person. Once someone gets one, everyone will be saying "well, why can't I get one too?".
Had to smile at your last sentence because there's so much truth to office envy. I was issued a cell phone by my last employer because my position required weekly travel in an area with a diameter of >150 miles, and the people who thought it unfair only worked from the office. Same with a disabled person getting some sort of accommodation, the chicken coop was cackling about unfairness, constantly.
There's nothing more toxic than a group of office workers.
Or a beefy laptop that can do more than send emails and Photoshop lol
A beefy PC that you’re going to be itching to upgrade in 2 years.
I will say though, if you’re planning on gaming then Mac is still a no go. It’s best for design and audio professionals. Average joes should just be getting a Chromebook or something.
What can you do on a Mac that a cheap ass laptop can't do?
The Mac can run MacOS. That was the point of this thread, that MacOS is less junked up than Windows.
It's not about not being able to do it, it's about being able to do it well, and have a nice experience.
My $200 Thinkpad T14 will browse the web, but I get about 4 hours battery life at best doing that. My M1 MBP gets 15 doing the exact same thing.
Then you'd have a laptop twice as thick, 1/5th the battery life, be built worse, and have an awful trackpad.
You really don't get any of those things. Be a Mac fan if that's your thing, but don't try to pretend they're actually any better because all the PCs you've used have been trash.
I’ve yet to find a PC laptop that can replicate a Mac TouchPad. They’ve gotten better in the last few years, but are still miles off Apple.
They’re not better for everything, but some stuff they’ve absolutely nailed over the competition and it’s not even close.
Right. Buy products that is not only expensive to buy, but also expensive to repair. Pass..
Before I will even think about buying a Mac I will buy a Framework laptop and install debian.
And I don't even use Linux outside of a home server.
Yeah those laptops from Framework seems very interesting. They don't ship here yet, but I'm indeed keeping an eye on them. I know Framework project thanks to LTT, which is one of the few things right they've been doing these latest months: introducing people to easy to repair projects.
I'm literally stating the negatives, now only because I said there's good stuff about them I'm an advertising bot?
Get what you pay for. My M2 MacBook pro is best computer I've ever used by a huge margin
Maybe thanks to Windows being so shit, Linux will have its year soon
Windows 7 was peak Windows. They smoothed out all the problems of Vista (plus hardware caught up to the recommended specs) and all the new tech that Vista introduced matured a bit. Was one of the nicest looking operating systems they ever released too - though that is highly subjective.
Everything after has introduced some form of garbage in it's iteration. Windows 8 had a garbage tablet interface that sucked when used with keyboard/mouse. Like the majority of devices that it was installed on. Windows 10 rolled back some of those shit changes but was the version Microsoft started implementing their adware. Windows 11 took it to 11 and put in a bunch of hardware requirements that conveniently required you to dump some money into Intel hardware.
Been running Linux for last six months and it is crazy how much better it runs. It isn't as cumbersome to use as the old days... But every once in a while I run into something that requires Googling and tweaking in Terminal. It's been my best experience with the OS though going back to WAY back (Mandrake and Slackware days - or are they still around? Early 2000's maybe???)
Since 1998
I switched to MacOS last year and it’s so much better. Considering a full Linux switch when this iMac is too old unless the VisionPros turn out to be as good as advertised
I'm using Windows 10 at home and 11 at work. I've already turned an old gaming laptop into a Linux machine, and I don't think I'll ever switch to Windows 11. The straw that broke the camel's back was the moment I read an article about Microsoft's vision to make Windows entirely cloud based.
Astonishing how Microshit is making Apple look good in comparison.
MacOS has been fine for awhile now, but Apple’s hardware is very expensive. They’re great for productivity but not so much for gaming.
Yet, since they've been pushing to that sector for quite a while, they even released tools to help developers porting their games to Mac, which apparently some people are now using to actually play games on a MacBook.
Even emulating the performance is quite impressive. Yet another coverage that LTT screwed up badly, so I give you this better video to check: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beYODfD2ipo&t=99s
keep in mind he's running most of the games on a <1000$ Mac Mini.
Edit: The games in the video are being emulated, both Windows to MacOS and DirectX to Metal. So about 50% of the performance is being lost for emulation only.
Yeah, the pricing of the hardware is quite steep, but the OS is quite good. To be fair, some of the parts of a MacBook have an astonishing quality, like the speakers, the keyboard, mousepad, screen. Stuff that you must search pretty hard to find in the competition in the same package.
This is pretty much my view, hardware is good, software is good, price is stupid, and Apple being Apple can suck. But I'm happy with it
ive slapped mint on so many PCs... people barely know its not windows
most people only use the freakin browser