this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2026
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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I dunno that the original dessalines counts as genocidal, despite his attempts to rid haiti of whites. It was more or less a mass murder, and outright unnecessary since he had other options, but I don't know that genocide would be the right term for it? Maybe, I'm not fully convinced either way, just starting a tangent
That tangent is that the real dessalines was.... complicated. He essentially became a central figure in Haitian liberation. One can argue that the revolution might not have succeeded without him. He was certainly effective.
He was also effective as "emperor" (in quotes because it's hard to be an emperor of a single nation) for the most part. Made Haiti pitchy officially an independent nation, declared slavery abolished, stripped colonialists of property, and generally kept things running.
Of course, part of keeping things running was treating Haitians like slaves, just without the label.
Which shows both why the dev dessalines might have chosen the name, and why it doesn't really fit. Plus, you know, the whole emperor thing being contrary to socialism being weird.
Fwiw to anyone here for the tangent, there's been a goodly number of books about the real Dessalines. Likely available at your local library, or on the high seas. He was a fascinating figure.
Most genocide is Mass murder. You are basically making an argument of ability and scope. Genocide is a genocide. And it doesn't even require murder all the time. Though generally it does include it.
The fact remains that not only did he target what had become a minority group on the islands and wipe it out. Basically genocide. Worse they had been allies fighting alongside him.
And the United States certainly weren't the good guys in the whole situation either. They did their normal thing showing up just long enough to kill a foreign leader. Even if the large portion of Haitian population desired is removal. It still doesn't excuse what France did afterwards and how America followed along buddy buddy enabling France.
I would definitely argue that there's a bit of wiggle room on freed slaves offing their oppressors though. It wasn't just him.
My hindsight take is that it was a justifiable action considering the history of humanity and how slave revolt tends to be handled. Wiping out the overlords instead of exiling them is a form of preemptive strike.
The American Civil War was actually the oppression of a South American minority group (white European slave owners)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haitian_massacre first sentence.
I don't know why he chose that name but it seems like a deliberate provocation. That violence begets violence, and still without violence we cannot resist the oppressors. And that you can only liberate yourself and others by getting your hands dirty.
So I think it's hypocrisy to reduce the historical figure Dessalines to a genocidal dictator. To use a thought terminating cliche about simplistic "good vs evil" ethics and derail a discussion that was about something else.
Every time you start a war you accept that war crimes will happen. It is inevitable in wars. There are no clean wars. War is slaughter, and when soldiers or the oppressed are put into extremis some will act like animals.
So how much of the guilt for the massacre lies with the slavers?
Yet liberals pretend that they do not put people into extremis. That their reasons were justified and intentions noble, that their wars and their hands are clean. But violence begets violence.
That is what the name of the user tells me, and what that comment tells me.
Yup, that's the main event under discussion.