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Centrist bullshit (discuss.online)
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[-] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Mamdani won in NYC. His experience cannot be directly applied to the entire country.

Governor of Virginia wouldn't have won on Mamdani's policies.

We really need to stop being such single-minded idiots.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is literally Chuck Schumer loser propaganda, stop repeating it. All it took to get conservative Maine to abandon Republicans was to put a rustic white male face on dem soc policy (Turned out the rustic white male was a rapist, so let's maybe be careful about future rustic white male selection). Talarico is wildly and authentically popular in Texas. Working class policy can win everywhere, so long as voters can see themselves in the candidate.

[-] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is literally Chuck Schumer loser propaganda

No, it's reality. Don't try to hit me with your dumbass boogeyman bullshit. My opinion doesn't come from Schumer, it comes from understanding the the heavily democratic, urban constituency of NYC is NOT THE FUCKING SAME as everywhere else in the country. Only an absolute moron could possibly believe that.

Also, it's pretty pathetic to see "progressives" give up on social issues altogether. You encouraging the abandonment of minorities, gay people, transgender people etc is sickening. Keep your phoney version of "morality" to yourself.

Who? Mamdani marched in the pride parade last month

[-] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

No, I wasn't talking to Mamdani on this message board. I was talking to the "progressive" who advocated we drop social issues and focus only on economic ones.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I never said anything about dropping social issues, you brought "giving up on social issues" as a separate complaint in your reply to me and I ignored it for being disingenuous bait. It's still disingenuous bait, nobody in US politics fights for social issues harder than a dem soc, because social issues are inseparable from economic issues.

Who do you think would fight harder for social issue? Kamala Harris or AOC? Karen Bass or Zohran Mamdani? Haley Stevens or Abdul El-Sayed?

You're full of shit if you think dem socs are weak on social issues.

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Have you ever lived in NYC? It's not an outlier for US politics in any manner. The immigrants trend conservative, as immigrants in the US often do. There are many entire neighborhoods that are deep red enclaves (Orthodox, conservative immigrant communities, cop / firefighter communities like City Island / Seaside / Staten Island). Multiple NYC mayors have been Republicans, one of them was RUDOLF FUCKING GIULIANI. It's the beating heart of global capitalism. Mamdani came out of NYC's most progressive / leftist region of northeast Brooklyn and western Queens and would have never been elected mayor if he hadn't found a way to communicate working class values to the entire swath of US political identities.

You can repeat his success anywhere in the US if you combine his platform with a relatable local identity and a strong ground campaign. Sorry if that freaks you out, it really shouldn't.

[-] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Sorry if that freaks you out, it really shouldn’t.

Or we can stop pretending that what works on the NYC constituency will work on the entire country. We can ALSO stop pretending that Mamdani is the only type of Democrat to win an election - which again, he did in a race the Democrat candidate was heavily favored to win. NYC electing a Republican mayor in the Trump era is ridiculous. It just would not happen.

Giuliana back then was NOT the Trump-era dingbat he became.

I'm so tired of this "one-size-fits-all" lazy bullshit. Democrats are generally friendlier to workers' rights than Republicans, that's really not arguable. Yet, these people are voting against their own interests. Which means Republicans are gaining ground with their culture war bullshit. That's why Democrats have lost when they did because even if they do support collective bargaining, workers' rights or higher minimum wage people STILL vote for Republicans because of their culture war nonsense.

The economy was undoubtedly better under Biden than it was under Trump and we STILL have to hear this bullshit that about Democrats are the "real" enemy.

What "freaks me out" is losing control on this country entirely, which you is what will happen if we continue to be inflexible dumbasses who demand absolute purity "or else".

[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago

It's hard to follow the disperate threads of your rant here but your core argument seems to still be that a working class agenda can't win in the majority of the US, which is just wrong. And elsewhere in this thread you're associating dem soc working class politics with an abandonment of social issues, which is also just wrong.

If the rise of a cohesive left politics in this country truly worries you I wouldn't fret, I'm sure the DNC and Israel will still be generating corporatist ghouls for you to enthusiastically pull their lever, for many more years to come.

[-] quill7513@anarchist.nexus 4 points 1 day ago

Abigail Spanberger won a tight race against an overt fascist without endorsements from any of the most powerful political blocs in virginia, like the UMWA, USW, UAW, or CWA. she also ran virtually unopposed in the democratic primary. she is not an example of someone who won because of the value of centrist politics. she's currently wildly unpopular for vetoing populist left wing bills from the long session (60 days) without providing input during the session about what she wanted. the next, and final session of this legislature is a short session (30 days) and none of the legislaters knew what she wants or needs to pass environmental protections, labor protections, or affordability measures as Virginia experiences a housing crisis.

so.

no.

this is not a good counter example to Mamdani, but instead a good example of exactly why no one trusts corporate dems or ex-CIA agents

[-] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Didn't seem to have much issues trusting them in 2020.

Oh I forgot, we're not supposed to acknowledge that because it doesn't fit the narrative. I guess 83 million people is "no one". The standard leftist excuse for a moderate winning is that "they didn't win by enough".

Anyone who thinks the NYC constituency is the same as the entire country is a delusional fucking moron. That's a completely indefensible argument that has no basis in reality. It's just stubborn hubris from people who think they can "punish" their way into geting what they want by actively harming the causes they pretend to care about.

Spanberger won a tight race.

  • She beat Earle-Sears 57% to 42%. Arguing that this was a "tight race" is disingenuous.

She lacked endorsements from UMWA, USW, UAW or CWA:

  • She was endorsed explicitly by the CWA. She was also supported explicitly by other unions: SEIU 32BJ, AFGE and LIUNA. The AFL-CIO didn't endorse her but that certainly does not mean they preferred her opponent.

She ran virtually unopposed in the Democratic primary

  • If she ran unopposed in the primary, why didn't Progressives put up a challenger? Is it HER fault she ran unopposed?

She isn’t evidence of the value of centrist politics

  • The primary was uncontested so among Democrats you really can't justify this statement. She then went on to convincingly win VA, which is not a certain blue state. It seems pretty clear to any honest person that her policies combined with Trump backlash are why she won the race.

She’s currently wildly unpopular.

  • Recent polling cannot possibly be interpreted as "wildly unpopular". The worst has at 44% approving/47% disapproving.

She vetoed populist left-wing bills.

  • Some argument here, granted, but it's still misleading. Some of the vetoed measures were bipartisan, rather than "left wing". The drug affordability bill passed the Senate 36–4 and House 95-4. She has also singed hundreds of positive bills, including regarding housing and the environment. Also brought the state back into the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative. Acting like all she has done is oppose progressive policies is misleading.

She provided no input, and legislators didn’t know what she wanted

  • The Democrats who spoke out about not hearing opposition until the veto phase are your hated "centrists", by the way. Seems your happy to listen to them here. Also, her policy staff worked with legislators throughout the session; she submitted approximately 180 amendments, many of which lawmakers accepted. Yes, there were communication issues here but NO it wasn't some deliberate attempt to scuttle progressive policies.

The "session" shit is ridiculous to begin with. They only meet for 30 days on odd numbered years? That's supposed to be enough time to go from introducing a bill to passing it? In any event, as stated above, the administration did chime in on the considered legislation over 100 times.

Why am I not surprised to see such a misleading comment from a supposed "leftist"? You contribute to this "post fact" bullshit just as much as the right does.

[-] quill7513@anarchist.nexus 1 points 1 day ago

A lot of what you're arguing is tangential to what I was trying to say, but I'll still go through it.

  1. We were glad in NoVA that Spanberger won in an extremely conservative district in Northern Virgina in 2018. It was a relief compared to what was there before. The follow up in 2020 was also nice.
  2. I'm not trying to say that she didn't win by enough. I don't really care about vote margins in electoral politics, I care about what politicians do in office to shift how people perceive the political process. Spanberger has been a consistent corporate vote. Better than the overt fascists. Still complicit in the erosion of our environmental and labor protections. She's part of the false binary we find ourselves in in this country between overt hyperfascism and slow neoliberal fascism. We won't know until we try it if a populist left wing candidate like a Zohran Mamdani or a Bernie Sanders could win in a general. Virginia hasn't had an opportunity to do such a thing in my lifetime.
  3. I also don't think that the NYC populace is the same as Virginia. I think our left wing populism would look different from their left wing populism. I know this because I've experienced it first hand. The center of left wing life in SWVA is the Grange, the Mutual Aid Hub, and the Water Defender. In the urban centers the focus is much more on economic unions and labor unions for the factory and office worker. I've lived both lives, and have seen that organization efforts need to fall along different lines and put different focuses on confronting poverty. In the countryside you need to empower people to support eachother through their access to clean drinking water and growable food. In the urban centers you need to empower people to organize their people power to demonstrate to their bosses the ability to say "No."
  4. I missed my CWA chapter endorsing her. I didn't know that the CWA endorsed her. That's my mistake. Most unionists did tend to vote for her anyway because Winsome Earle-Sears was an overt fascist. You will receive no argument from me. But this was the first time in my life that the unions refused to endorse either candidate. That's HUGE
  5. If she ran unopposed in the primary, why didn’t Progressives put up a challenger? Is it HER fault she ran unopposed? That's EXACTLY the organization failure I was trying to point out. Democracy is not a single event that occurs at the ballot box in November. Even the bourgious electoral form of democracy practiced in the United states requires participation 2-3 times a year to get the best possible outcome, but moreover, it requires dedicating time to go door to door to talk to people about candidates. You get more enthusiasm to do that when people are enthusiastic about the candidates. I haven't seen that in Virginia in a decade. No one trusts any of our politicians and people dedicated to the value of democratic values have been much more focused on community organization with their neighbors. It's been a monumental shift, and one I've very much seen accelerate in the past 4 years since the western regions of the state were devestated by hurricane helene along with our North Carolinian and West Virginian brethren, with many people slowly viewing themselves less as residents of any of our states or border states, and more as being parts of the cultural communities we exist in. The people of Bluefield, Tazewell, and Boone have more in common that their political representation reflects. So why do we even pay attention to the state borders when our real connections are through our food and our water? More and more people want representation that reflects this, and if Democrats don't run a socialist who reflects this, they risk losing to a national-socialism who does Iq8F88AClfPHMlr.jpg Definition of fascism by Seth Tobocman. If we are to resist fascism, we must acknowledge how it takes hold. The "Virginia wants corporate dems" narrative undermines our ability to assess and resist our standing when increasingly there is a boot on our nets.

  6. Not being Winsome Earle-Sears is not clear policy value. Virginians like some of her policy positions, but some of her policy positions are WILDLY unpopular, and as a result she has become increasingly unpopular. We do need to acknowledge that there is an element of misogyny driving her unpopularity. I renounce anyone who roots their criticisms of the 67th governor in her gender. Fuck that and fuck off if that's you (not you who I'm replying to, obviously, but I know there's a chance someone's reading this hating her for her gender). I'll state my stance that our last good governor was Francis Harrison Pierpont. Spanberger is a better governor than Youngkin, McDonnel, or Warner up to this point, but we do have to acknowledge what the specific issues with her governorship have been
  7. You think I don't know the short sessions and long sessions are completely insane!? THEY'RE COMPLETELY INSANE!! "Oh it's to avoid a permanent professional class of politicians from running the state" bull fucking shit, the result is representatives that spend somewhere between 1 and 3 months a year doing anything, and the rest of the year schmoozing. I fuckin' hate it. I'll have to take your word for it on that it was the centrist dems mainly saying she scuttled collective bargaining and environmental protections we'd been hopeful on. That was the feedback we got from our union endorsed representative and from multiple environmental groups in our valley who spend a lot of time talking to representatives, senators, and anyone else who will listen to that we're tired of the arsenic in the New River, so it was the understanding I had taken away from this past session.
[-] FE80@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

She ran virtually unopposed in the Democratic primary

If she ran unopposed in the primary, why didn’t Progressives put up a challenger? Is it HER fault she ran unopposed?

Spanberger didn't run for Congress is 2024 because she intended to run for governor in 2025. The lack of other primary candidates is obvious evidence of a party clearing the path for their chosen candidate.

[-] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

obvious evidence of a party clearing the path

No, that's paranoid delusional bullshit based on nothing. That IS NOT "obvious" evidence that there was some official "clearing the path" the disincluded more Progressive options. The only thing it's evidence of is that no Progressive candidate stood up and tried to run.

The misinformation is fucking ENDLESS with you guys. It's like you don't even remotely care if what you say is true or not.

this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2026
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