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Excellent point... (piefed.cdn.blahaj.zone)
submitted 2 days ago by LadyButterfly@piefed.blahaj.zone to c/historymemes@piefed.social
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[-] Saapas@piefed.zip 11 points 2 days ago

I guess you have the freedom but not the ability

[-] Zombie@feddit.uk 12 points 2 days ago

As is the case now.

Are you free, really? Free to do what? To live as you please? To do what you please?

Let’s see. How do you live? What does your freedom amount to?

You depend on your employer for your wages or your salary, don’t you? And your wages determine your way of living, don’t they? The conditions of your life, even what you eat and drink, where you go and with whom you associate, — all of it depends on your wages.

No, you are not a free man. You are dependent on your employer and on your wages. You are really a wage slave.

The whole working class, under the capitalist system, is dependent on the capitalist class. The workers are wage slaves.

So, what becomes of your freedom? What can you do with it? Can you do more with it than your wages permit?

Can’t you see that your wage — your salary or income — is all the freedom that you have? Your freedom, your liberty, don’t go a step further than the wages you get.

The freedom that is given you on paper, that is written down in law books and constitutions, does not do you a bit of good. Such freedom only means that you have the right to do a certain thing. But it doesn’t mean that you can do it. To be able to do it, you must have the chance, the opportunity. You have a right to eat three fine meals a day, but if you haven’t the means, the opportunity to get those meals, then what good is that right to you?

So freedom really means opportunity to satisfy your needs and wants. If your freedom does not give you that opportunity, than it does you no good. Real freedom means opportunity and well-being. If it does not mean that, it means nothing.

from Now and After by Alexander Berkman, Chapter 3: Law and Government. Available to read for free here.

[-] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

But roaming the savanna with some stinky people, scavenging won't give you the freedom to whatever as well. Don't want to add to the pile of food because today you're not feeling it? They'll kick you out and you'll get eaten by wolves by next Tuesday.

Edit: Hate it all you want, you're not alone and in a society there are rules. Getting rid of capitalists is a good idea, but you'll still have to contribute to the pile. Just way less and with a purpose beyond creating the next billionaire.

But complete freedom comes with complete loneliness. And all on your own, you'll have a hard time.

[-] Zombie@feddit.uk 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Who said anything about being alone?

One of the core tenets of anarcho-communism (which this book is explaining and advocating for) is mutual aid.

Anarchy doesn't mean no rules, it means no rulers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_aid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evolution

Therefore I must tell you, first of all, what Anarchism is not.

It is not bombs, disorder, or chaos.

It is not robbery and murder.

It is not a war of each against all.

It is not a return to barbarism or to the wild state of man.

Anarchism is the very opposite of all that.

Anarchism means that you should be free; that no one should enslave you, boss you, rob you, or impose upon you.

It means that you should be free to do the things you want to do; and that you should not be compelled to do what you don’t want to do.

It means that you should have a chance to choose the kind of a life you want to live, and live it without anybody interfering.

It means that the next fellow should have the same freedom as you, that every one should have the same rights and liberties.

Now and After, Introduction

[-] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

Rules without people implementing them are useless and people disobeying the rules need to be reminded that they are there for a reason. I am sure your ideas sound beautiful, but we as human beings are flawed and this will probably never come.

You seem to think I want to adhere to the current system. I don't, I think capitalism is cancer and needs to be eradicated. But I also think you don't have the answer.

[-] Zombie@feddit.uk 3 points 1 day ago

You clearly don't know what anarchism truly is, but rather have an idea of what you think it is. I suggest giving the book I linked a quick browse. It's not very long and is written specifically to be accessible to those who have never studied anarchism in depth.

But before I tell you what Anarchism is, I want to tell you what it is not.

That is necessary because so much falsehood has been spread about Anarchism. Even intelligent persons often have entirely wrong notions about it.

Link again for your convenience.

[-] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

Bru, stop it. Wrong tree, go bark at another one.

[-] Saapas@piefed.zip 4 points 2 days ago

I mean absolutely. And in the tribal past you wouldn't have had many of the global and even regional supply systems we now have making much of our (limited) life possible now

[-] Goldholz 3 points 2 days ago

...you can code and learn coding by yourself

[-] Saapas@piefed.zip 5 points 2 days ago

Are you writing code on a cave wall while the rest of the tribe keeps you fed or what's the deal

[-] Goldholz 2 points 2 days ago

You think technological progress only happens when profits are being generated or what is your thing?

[-] Saapas@piefed.zip 4 points 2 days ago

We're talking about hunter gatherer times. Who would've been supplying or manufacturing parts for the thing you're coding for?

Maybe you are envisioning your role as the mad shaman talking to the tribe in python or something but during those times people did need to contribute something to the tribe

[-] Goldholz 1 points 2 days ago

No we are talking about a world without the essential need to work to survive. But working for the society and not out of neccessaty

[-] Saapas@piefed.zip 3 points 2 days ago

I think you might be having a different convo to most of the other replies. Most seem to be talking about the cave times. Not just some utopian hypothetical

this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2026
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