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[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Hamas existed first as on offshoot of the Islamist Muslim brotherhood. A lot their work was charity and social work like running kindergartens according to their beliefs. They were a marginal militant group until the Oslo peace process in the 1990s. Hamas was and is fundamentally opposed to accepting the existence of Israel. They never joined the PLO, like all other Palestinians political parties did.

So while the PLO lead the Arafat was making huge progress in negotiating for more and more Palestinian self rule with the goal of a state, Hamas bombed buses filled with school children in Israel. During a time where Israel was severely restricting and stopping construction of settlements and retreating from Palestinian population centers.

Hamas terrorism was a major factor in the peace process failing. The weakened the power of Fatah, by presenting themselves as the only ones who stick to true resistance goal of destruction of Israel. They demonstrated fierce determination by popularizing suicide bomb attacks, which was new at the time. This increased internal friction among Palestinians. The Intrafada during the first and later second Intifada was Palestinians killing 2000 Palestinians over this issue.

Ararat and later Abbas refused several peace deals offered. Many observers think a major reasons was being afraid of being murdered by Palestinians, if he signed a peace deal with Israel that included compromises. Just like had happened to Egyptian President Al-Sadat after he made peace and his Israeli counterpart Yitzak Rabin.

Hamas then really came into its own during the second Intifada, establishing itself as the most fanatic Palestinian faction. Their takeover of Gaza was their big victory in the civil war against Fatah. Instead of building a state there for Palestinians to live good lives, their main focus was the continued armed struggle against Israel from their new base. Remember there was no blockade after Israel‘s unilateral withdrawal and removal of settlements from Gaza. That only was instated after repeated attacks originating in Gaza and arms shipments at scale by sea.

Hamas succeeded in destroying the fragile but hopeful peace process during the 1990s. It then further demonstrated during the second intifada and afterwards, that they were only interested in war. From Hamas‘ perspective this even makes sense. Violence has lead to their biggest achievements: failure of the peace process, gain government power in Gaza, gain worldwide recognition and supporters, be seen as committed to resistance amongst Palestinians.

Hamas has also managed to obliterate the peace camp and political left inside Israel. Netanyahu and his ilk became more credible by saying there was no partner for peace.

Hamas has succeeded in splitting Palestinian political leadership. Attempts at unity governments have failed repeatedly. Remember that Palestinians used to have a united, internationally recognized political representation with the PLO. Hamas destroyed that. How can Israel be expected to make peace with the Palestinians, if they don’t even have peace among themselves?

The way Hamas has ruled Gaza was pretty bad for the people there. Not only did they impose more Islamic sharia rules, oppress free speech, free press, tortured political opposition, etc. Hamas invested billions into the military instead of building a country. Construction of hundreds of kilometers of tunnels and bunkers, import and manufacturing of weapons were valued the highest. Economic development, good relations with their neighbors, democratic freedoms were neglected.

Hamas is what happens when fanatic jihadism is supercharged by uncompromising irredentist nationalism and antisemitism. They oppose democratic, left, and progressive values.

Their strategy of endless war has lead to more Palestinian death in Gaza, than during the last hundred years of this conflict combined. It’s an utter failure.

Lots of Palestinians know this and are opposed to Hamas. I actually talk with Palestinians living in Israel and this is pretty much their perspective.

Encouraging contact between Israelis and Palestinians living there would actually help to improve the situation and achieve peace. This is something the BDS movement is opposed to.

Israel

Does plenty of bad stuff including war crimes, illegal settlement, etc.

Nazi resistance

That was a much shorter war and an overall a very different situation. Resistance groups fought on because they knew the war wasn’t over. Today you don’t see ethnic Germans blowing up busses in Danzig/Gdansk or Poles shooting rockets at Lviv. Tens of Millions Europeans were displaced during and after WW2. Today you don’t see ethnic Germans blowing up busses in Danzig/Gdansk or Poles shooting rockets at Lviv.

Israel/Palestine was born out of a civil war in mandatory Palestine. There were many opportunities to end it since 1947, all of them squandered by Palestinian leadership.

The international community‘s involvement in Israel/Palestine has been a total shambles since the Balfour declaration. Endless meddling and the locals vying for support of other powers has kept the conflict going and escalated it again and again. The UN partition plan from 1947 was rejected by the Arab states, while the local Palestinians weren’t even invited.

The way UNRWA was established and run is another failure. In all other cases of refugees, organizations like UNHCR and others helping refugees will resettle them elsewhere if return isn’t practical. Palestinians are unique in this regard. They are still considered refugees, even if only one great-grandparent fled, and they have gained citizenship of another country or even live in Palestine. UNRWA actively working on keeping Palestinians stateless, second class citizens, and teaching them in their schools about their eventual „return“ has kept this conflict alive. No other group of refugees and their descendants has been treated like that before or after.

The only way this conflict can end, is to make the locals talk to each other, and work together on figuring out a way to coexist and prosper.

[-] arbilp3@aussie.zone 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Looks a lot like AI-assisted hasbara to me.

You forget to mention that Hamas has been funded and seen as an asset by Israel many times to create division among Palestinians and therefore ensuring less of a chance of creating a Palestinian state.

Despite all the details you provide about Hamas you make a short comment about the 'bad stuff' that Israel has done. And what Israel has done is much more egregious not only in terms of the number of innocent lives maimed, tortured and annihilated but through the manipulation of Palestinian leadership and brazen scorched earth policy so that Palestinians can never have their homes back. The Zionist regime and supporters (settlers and non-settlers) steal what is not theirs through sheer techno savagery and now, oh dear, they are tasting some of their own medicine.

The supremacist Zionist government treats Palestinians with the same contempt that Nazis treated Jews. The supremacist Nazis dispossessed Jews of their homes, used them for menial labour, herded them into crowded camps in which they were mistreated and killed. The supremacist Nazis, in fact, thought they were superior to anyone who wasn't Aryan and extended their invasion to neighbouring countries so they could take over & have more room to breed the 'master race'. Does this sound familiar?

Resistance groups fought on because they knew the war wasn’t over.

Well, if you haven't noticed, I can assure you that the war in the ME and Western Asia is not over so Israel and allies will find that resistance will continue. Btw, why would Germans blow up busses and Poles shoot rockets today? They have their sovereign countries back. The Palestinians, Lebanese and others do not, so, they will continue to fight back invaders and thieves.

The only way this conflict can end, is to make the locals talk to each other, and work together on figuring out a way to coexist and prosper.

Really? As you have contacts in Israel how about you ask them? How about asking the Netanyahu govt nicely, you know, the one which has pledged that there will never be a Palestinian State and which has done all in it power to dismantle a two-state solution?

Tell me, could you coexist and prosper with a neighbour who had thrown you out of your own home, trashed it and treats you with evil cruelty? Don't you think that neighbour would have to give you your home back, pay you for the damage done and admit their actions were wrong before you could live side by side amicably?

I could write a longer spiel and give you some references but I haven't got the time. War is horror. Those who pay the worst price are the innocent children, women and men who just want to live their lives as you no doubt do. We are dripping with the bloody, visual proof of war crimes almost daily on our screens because of the sickness of our political and economic systems and the sense of entitlement of our so-called 'elites'. We too have to figure out how to coexist and prosper so we better work out different systems.

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

AI-assisted

I have followed this topic since the 1990s and I’m capable of writing more than two sentences on this topic.

to create division among Palestinians

Yes, Israel exploited the division of Palestinians at times. The division itself and the failure to resolve it is fully the work of Palestinians.

supremacist Zionist government treats Palestinians with the same contempt that Nazis treated Jews

You are either misinformed about what’s happening in Israel/Palestine or how the Nazis treated the Jews, likely both. It’s nowhere even similar. Nazi Germany took away citizenship of all Jews, removed them from public office, state jobs, universities. Jews had to wear a Star of David on their clothing. 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab Palestinians with full rights. Israeli Arabs work in all professions from university professors to judges at courts. This is very different from Nazi death camps.

The Nazi comparisons only serve the antisemitic goal of retroactively legitimizing the Holocaust. They are devoid of any factual basis.

Comparisons to Turkey or the USA would be more accurate, if you want to find parallels.

me, could you coexist and prosper with a neighbour who had thrown you out of your own home, trashed it and treats you with evil cruelty? Don't you think that neighbour would have to give you your home back, pay you for the damage done and admit their actions were wrong before you could live side by side amicably.

My own ancestors were forcibly displaced from Danzig and lost everything they owned. They themselves accepted at some point that it was lost forever. I don’t blow up buses in Poland in the hope of getting my ancestors‘ house back.

The same is true for many millions all over Europe and elsewhere (India-Pakistan split, Turkey/Greece, Ukraine/Poland) that were displaced in the 1940s. The vast majority accepted the loss and live peacefully with their neighbors today.

800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and Muslim countries from the 1940s onwards. They also lost property.

Wars, refugees, displacement happen usually involving loss of property. Compensation is rare.

That said, I think some kind of compensation for Palestinians should be part of a peace deal.

How do you feel about the Jews living in Jerusalem, that were forced out by Jordan in 1948? They lost their houses as well. East Jerusalem used to be majority Jewish at the time. Jordan then moved other people into these houses. After Israel annexed Jerusalem, some of the original owners tried to win back their lost property through the courts. Some were successful and get paid rent by the new inhabitants. Others want to move into these houses themselves, but evicting the tenants isn’t always easy. That’s what’s happening in Sheik Jarrah in Jerusalem.

[-] arbilp3@aussie.zone 1 points 1 day ago

Not convincing. Read, if you like, this report which is just one of many we can find online on the situation of Israeli Arabs and which is not written by any Palestinian organisation which you might consider biased: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

Your link agrees with me.

Arabs have sat on the Supreme Court and worked in the foreign service, with a handful serving as ambassadors since 1995. Many have served as mayors, judges in lower courts, and in civil service positions.

Sure there is some discrimination against Israeli Arabs. It’s nothing like Nazi Germany though. It’s much more similar to minorities being discriminated and disadvantaged in the USA.

The situation for Palestinians with resident status in East Jerusalem is obviously different because they aren’t citizens. Palestinian residents of Jerusalem were able to apply for citizenship for decades. Many didn’t do it for various reasons. An important issue was not be seen as a traitor other Palestinians.

Similar issues exist with Arab Israelis. They don’t have to serve in the army, but can voluntarily. Not serving has disadvantages because they aren’t making social connections during their service. As your article also mentions, many of them don’t vote even though they have the right. That is changing though. Yoseph Haddad is a great example of an Arab Israeli who decided to serve in the army and became a successful journalist later on. He’s now working on integrating Israeli Arabs more into the political system.

[-] arbilp3@aussie.zone 1 points 16 hours ago
this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2026
87 points (100.0% liked)

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