How native Hawaiians feel about the occupation regime (twitter.com)

submitted 1 year ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] atlasraven31@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Would Hawaii live in peace and prosperity if it were suddenly its own independent state?

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 year ago

It would be up to the people who live there to figure out how to run things. This is certainly not an argument for US to continue occupying them.

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

how is it an “occupation” when Hawaiians themselves voted to become a state by a 94+% majority?

On June 27, 1959, a referendum asked residents of Hawaiʻi to vote on the statehood bill; 94.3% voted in favor of statehood and 5.7% opposed it. (source)

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

from your own link

In 1897, over 21,000 Natives, representing the overwhelming majority of adult Hawaiians, signed anti-annexation petitions in one of the first examples of protest against the overthrow of Queen Liliʻuokalaniʻs government.[143] Nearly 100 years later, in 1993, 17,000 Hawaiians marched to demand access and control over Hawaiian trust lands and as part of the modern Hawaiian sovereignty movement.[144] Hawaiian trust land ownership and use is still widely contested as a consequence of annexation. According to scholar Winona LaDuke, as of 2015, 95% of Hawaiʻiʻs land was owned or controlled by just 82 landholders, including over 50% by federal and state governments, as well as the established sugar and pineapple companies.[144] The Thirty Meter Telescope is planned to be built on Hawaiian trust land, but has faced resistance as the project interferes with Kanaka indigeneity.[clarify][145]

If you think a referendum from 1959 fairly represents the interests of the native population then what else is there to say.

[-] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Person is in bad faith and worse, smug. Hhit em with a PPB.

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

If you think a referendum from 1959 fairly represents the interests of the native population then what else is there to say.

that it does, and you have failed to prove otherwise despite quoting a block f text you clearly don’t understand— OR are intentionally misrepresenting, hoping everyone else here is too stupid to realize you’re trying to pull a fast one on them.

Fortunately, I’m not the idiot you think I am.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A referendum to either become a state or remain a territory is not relevant to the question of the occupation.

only because you’ve moved the goalposts when you couldn’t win that argument with facts.

People were never given a choice of independence

the people always ave that choice. they can protest, revolt, etc. Did the Bolsheviks just ask the Tsars to pretty please step aside?

Seems that you’re intentionally arguing in bad faith here.

I’m not the one ignoring facts, employing logical fallacies and hurling personal insults when I don’t “win” online arguments.

Clearly you’re a much bigger idiot than I thought you were.

can’t argue with facts, so playskool insults it is. classy. no wonder I see he molding full of you getting posts and comments removed, and you’re totally banned form lemmy.world.

also explains this post https://lemmy.ml/post/2756876

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

only because you’ve moved the goalposts when you couldn’t win that argument with facts.

I didn't move any goal posts. I said Hawaii is an occupied territory, and you came back with BuT ThEy HaD a RefErEnduM. Forgetting to mention that the referendum wasn't actually about independence and that the people of Hawaii were never given a choice of independence by their occupiers.

There is no false dichotomy here. It's hilarious seeing your comment history where you communicate through memes like a 5 year old child.

the people always ave that choice. they can protest, revolt, etc. Did the Bolsheviks just ask the Tsars to pretty please step aside?

People in Hawaii are revolting against your regime as we speak.

The facts are that you made false claim and now you don't even have the decency to admit it. No point having further discussion with a liar.

also explains this post https://lemmy.ml/post/2756876

love living rent free in your collective heads

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I didn’t move any goal posts.

“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

There is no false dichotomy here.

see my previous reply

People in Hawaii are revolting against your regime as we speak.

a handful of protesters is hardly a “revolt”, but you’re adorable for thinking “big”.

The facts are

the last thing you have is a grasp on the facts. your comment an post history are proof enough of that, with a long history of bans, deleted comments, and verbally being drummed you of most places you visit or being a toxic mess.

love living rent free in your collective heads

how sad for you

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

Do feel free to articulate which goal posts you're claiming that I moved. Be specific.

see my previous reply

I did, it's nonsensical.

a handful of protesters is hardly a “revolt”, but you’re adorable for thinking “big”.

Way to dismiss majority of the native population. I guess that's what you'd expect from racist occupiers.

the last thing you have is a grasp on the facts. your comment an post history are proof enough of that, with a long history of bans, deleted comments, and verbally being drummed you of most places you visit or being a toxic mess.

Wow interesting narrative you made up about me there. Maybe send me of whatever drugs you're having while hallucinating these things, cause that sounds like some good shit.

how sad for you

Nah, it's free entertainment for me kddio.

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Do feel free to articulate which goal posts you’re claiming that I moved. Be specific.

I already have, in detail. sealioning as you last line of attack? boring…

I did, it’s nonsensical.

I’m not responsible for your lack of comprehension.

Way to dismiss majority of the native population.

Wow interesting narrative you made up about me there

anyone is free to look at your comment history or the modlogs. no drugs necessary. how like you to hurl insult - yet again - when confronted with facts you can’t refute.

Nah, it’s free entertainment for me kddio.

not very convincing….

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

You have not done any such thing, but I guess lying is all you've been doing here, so that's par for the course.

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You have not done any such thing

“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

but I guess lying is all you’ve been doing here

“I know you are but what am I?” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago

Whatever you say colonizer.

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

Whatever you say colonizer.

ooo, more name-calling. still “entertained”? lmao

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

You're literally defending why it's justified for US to occupy Hawaii in this thread colonizer. I'm very much entertained by you publicly debasing yourself here. Hope you made enough FICO score points to buy yourself food tonight.

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

You’re literally defending why it’s justified for US to occupy Hawaii in this thread colonizer

I merely presented facts you didn’t like, so you’re lying about what I said (even though anyone can scroll up and see you’re lying and what I actually said) just because you have no argument other than to hurl insults.

I’m very much entertained by you publicly debasing yourself here.

then you’re experiencing hallucinations, as the facts don’t correspond to your experience.

Hope you made enough FICO score points to buy yourself food tonight.

whatever that means…. I buy food with money I earn from work.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If by presented facts you mean lied then sure.

What you presented was a referendum that wasn't done exclusively amongst the indigenous population whose land your regime occupied, and that wasn't about independence at all.

That's the only actual straw man in this thread.

And now you just keep spamming here instead of admitting that you are a liar, but anybody can read this thread and see that you are full of shit.

whatever that means…. I buy food with money I earn from work.

at a troll farm

🤡

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

If by presented facts you mean lied then sure.

since, after multiple accusations, you STILL can’t show evidence of this without either putting words in my mouth or outright lying (which I point out every time, as the comments above prove), it’s a bit f a joke now when you say this.

What you presented was a referendum that wasn’t done exclusively amongst the indigenous population whose land your regime occupied, and that wasn’t about independence at all.

moving the goalposts doesn’t change the facts, which I have laid out and explained detail above already. repeating the same logical fallacies over and over won’t make them magically come true.

And now you just keep spamming her

if you don’t like it when I call out your repeated BS every time you reply with false accusations, childish insults, logical fallacies, and outright lies, then you cans top any time. facing the consequences of your actions is not a a state of victimhood.

at a troll farm

oh, I thought you loved Russians and the fine work they do!

lmao

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

lmao I love how you think that if you just keep repeating bullshit enough times it'll be true, what an utter clown you are

[-] adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

lmao I love how you think that if you just keep repeating bullshit enough times it’ll be true, what an utter clown you are

it’s interesting how simply hearing the facts repeated angers you so much, right to the point of tantrums and hurling insults. Hardly a position from which to argue that your is the reasonable point, or the factual one, especially since you have no facts.

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[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

Amazing that @whiskeypickle@lemmy.ml, who is also a fan of those weird debate fallacy images, posted this in another thread today:

“nuh-uh” isn’t a convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

Also this, also from today:

“I know you are but what am I?” is not a convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.

You also posted that second one, verbatim, this afternoon as @adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml.

You're the same person, aren't you?

Edit: Lol you even responded to an argument in this thread while still logged in to @whiskeypickle@lemmy.ml, then deleted it because someone noticed.

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[-] ikilledtheradiostar@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The choice was to become a state or remain a territory. Either yes or no would have had Hawaiian peoples occupied. Statehood could be seen as a regaining a scrap of self determination but all it ended up doing was impoverishing the natives and ceding all wealth to colonizing capitalists. This is a primarily function of bourgeois democracy.