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Rogues
(media.piefed.world)
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this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2026
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They feel far more to be a relic of a bygone era in which the idea of a skill monkey carrying their weight to the game felt reasonable.
I do think that there are many opportunities to create a good rogue class. But rogue encompasses too many ideas, while simultaneously being far more of a backstory than an actual class.
The meat of the class that I think is valuable is a martial that's survivability is in dodging and whose offensive loop is to set up and exploit vulnerability each turn, whether it's by buffing themselves or debuffing their enemy. The problem is games like 5e take this and the math they give rogues just doesn't work out to leave them feeling equal to any other martial getting two attacks with 1d12/2d6 or even 1d8
sad monk class sounds
But seriously, I always felt archetype of light armor being the 'stealth' armor class was silly. Sure, less penalty than chains and plates, but still.
Ah, you just brought up the class that I think actually doesn't belong in most games. Tonally a whole class devoted to wuxia is fucking nuts in something like 5e and has no place in the basic 10 in pf2.
The rogue I described having a fast pugilist subclass who buffs itself with speed every turn giving it added ac and lightning strike is good enough to fit the monk. A fighter pugilist is a different monk. As is a paladin. Why do I care? Because the monk slot should have gone to psions, especially in 5e where that's clearly what it was designed to be.
I don't really know 5e very well, nor PF, but monks were always kind of an awkward fit in 3.5 too. From what I understand the redesign put then closer to an old 3.5 prestige class with the ki strikes and such.
Yeah 5e has them as using ki in ways that feels very much like they started building a psion and were told to change it to a monk. Pf2 has them also using qi magic (there it's just the monk flavoring of focus spells, something most classes have), and doing a lot of classic monk stuff. There I'm far less unhappy with it being it's own class, I just don't think wuxia classes are generally fitting enough to belong in core 2 rather than a splatbook.
Reminds me of the Palladium monk occupation. Strictly about dodging and the point was monks did NOT attack or fight. Striking an opponent meant being defrocked and losing monk status. I thought it was a neat take (and a direct response to the DnD monk trope.)
Pure dialogue and skill class. Never got a Palladium campaign really going though. Just a sea of worldbuilding.