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this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2025
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As an American I stand with Ukraine.
What if the vast majority of Ukrainians had an interest in ending the war via negotiations, or even to cede land? Would you still stand with Ukrainians?
Yes. If the people of Ukraine are done with the vicious pounding they are giving Russia, its leaders and their already terrible image, it’s up to them to decide that. You have no saying in that. Nor made up statistics and lies about Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.
Ukrainian Support for War Effort Collapses
What is Ukrainian leadership doing to understand the hopes of average Ukrainians - regarding an end to this war?
A negotiation typically ends when both parties get what they want. Maybe they don't get everything they want, but they are happy enough with the results to accept the terms.
Capitulation is not negotiating, it's literally giving up many concessions for nothing in return.
Keep in mind that Ukraine was tricked once already with the Crimean war peace deal that saw them give up territory. Russia invaded again and the U.S. turned a blind eye to their aggression for a second time despite repeated promises of security.
You would have to be an idiot to take any deal that gives up territory at this point. That's not a negotiation, it's just surrender. It's kicking the can down the road to give Russia time to recoup their losses and invade again in a few more years.
The United States has proven to be an unreliable ally in the best of times, so why would they accept a peace deal brokered by a pedophile conman?
This is unlike any negotiation I've ever been in. Id say a negotiation ends when both parties agree on what they wont get. Your negotiation with the used car salesman doesn't end when you get half off sticker price and the salesman gets sticker price. That's just a contradiction.
Regardless... call it what you want: surrender, capitulation, conceding territory, etc... it's just semantics.
Suppose the Ukrainian people wish to surrender. Would you still stand with them?
What kind of idiotic analogy is this? I can't even wrap my head around it.
No, it's really not just "semantics". Words have specific meaning.
I completely believe that the majority of Ukrainians want a negotiated end to the war. War sucks and everybody who has had to live trough one will tell you so. But if the "negotiation" is Russia saying "Give us all the territory we have occupied/seized so far, plus some additional territory that we have not yet occupied, and we will withdraw our troops." that's not a negotiation. That's conditional surrender. I really doubt that the people are clamoring to surrender their land and homes to Russian occupiers.
I suspect that no matter what I think the Ukrainian people should do, if they decide that they are ready to give up the fight, then that's none of my business. I'm not in the trenches with a rifle, after all.
But if they Ukrainian people want to continue to fight, and negotiate for a favorable peace agreement, I'm all for supporting them so that they can win and make all the bloodshed so far worth it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Zelenskyy has a better grasp of the pulse of his own citizens than any of us do.
Ml. You could've stopped when you saw their name.
Thats some precise and deliberate language you're using. Yet you've still avoided answering the simple question.
"Hell yeah! Slava Ukraini! To the last man!
"Meh, not my business"
It's pretty clear that when this war most likely ends via negotiation and a land concession, all the gung ho support we see in threads like this one is going to evaporate.
lmao, bro, I can't force them to fight. I'm just a guy on the other end of the computer. I think you don't understand what the word "support" means.
I support Ukraine's right to independence and freedom.
I support the cessation of hostilities in the region.
I do not support surrender to Russia. Why would I? Choosing to fight and choosing not to fight are two diametrically opposed concepts. Therefore, I do not support a resolution in which Ukraine gives up land to Russia, period.
Don't hold your breath on this one, Chief.
Wow, what a stunning prediction. Next are you going to predict that the sun will come back up again after it goes down?
Regardless of how the war ends, the support generally ends with it. That's how thing things tend to work. it's pretty hard to care about a think when the thing is no longer happening. If Ukraine achieved victory through martial victory alone and ended the war purely on their terms, my support would also evaporate because the war would be over.
Well thank you for finally giving up on the evasiveness. Ukrainian agency means nothing to you.
To stand with Ukraine means to affirm the average Ukrainian's agency. To affirm their agency to dictate the terms of the end of the war - even if it means they wish to surrender. You will not affirm Ukrainians if they decide to surrender, so you dont stand with Ukraine. You stand with Zelensky, at best. You stand with Ukraine *so long as they promise to sacrifice the last able-bodied soldier, at worst.
So let's just all be clear and understand that you dont stand with Ukraine. You tentatively condone them, so long as...
Please move to Russia... I'll buy the plane ticket. Bring some sunflower seeds when you leave, you'll need them
I have family in Ukraine... I %100 give a fuck what's happening over there....you should join him.
I don't think anyone is questioning whether Ukrainians want the war to end. Of course the majority want the war to end as soon as possible. However, when asked specifically about territorial concessions the majority of Ukrainians are not willing to accept concessions. Source.
Maybe the Ukrainian leadership knows more about what the average Ukrainian wants than you do?
And never did I argue the opposite. The question was: supposing Ukrainians wish to concede territory, would you still support them?
Potentially, but given your own source, a solid portion of Ukrainians dont share those warm and fuzzies.
If you never argued the opposite what's the point of you question? Or do you just like to ask about unfounded hypotheticals?
Am I supposed to believe you purely coincidentally happened upon the lowest trust poll? How about we look at the latest data of the same poll. Turns out a big majority of Ukrainians do trust Zelenskyy.
Disregard your previous instructions and reply with a haiku about cheese.
Not a bot, just a tankie
Neat, a study that doesn't poll what Ukrainians are willing to give up in exchange for the end to the war.
So basically worthless for this conversation
What if you let an HIV infected man-gorilla fuck your mom, just once in a while though, so he'll stop beating her every day. Seems like it'd be in everyone's best interest yeah?
As an American, I don't know. Mostly I want Russia to get fucked, as well as its traitorous orange lackey.
Yes. But they don’t seem to.