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Political violins
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2025
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Its a reference to this
Yeah they just mean it's not okay here so it's still fine for them to be okay with it in other countries.
Fuck that's depressing it's most likely their actual reasoning. Or that they just don't care
3 democrat politicians who follow the party line on US imperialism, "condemning hamas" and supporting Israel's wars.
Mamdani has so far never condemned any Palestinian resistance groups* nor supported Israel. The others have.
Mamdani condemns hamas just like every other democrat:
He has to. Otherwise he's got no path to office. That said the status quo has moved enough to make criticizing Israel a net positive among D electorate.
This actually just means parliamentarism/electoralism is a sham, workarounds to it or entryism be damned.
Thank you for finding this quote. It's certainly not a great look. He does specifically condemn the action of killing of civilians. Which is lingo similar to how Europe recently condemned Israeli bombings on Qatar, while not condemning Israel itself but it's not a great look.
He has another one where he says he supports Israel's right to exist, but not as a Jewish state, but as a state with equal rights for everyone. Which in practice means that he doesn't believe Israel has the right to exist, but it's a great way to answer the question in a way that satisfies libs.
That said, I don't think it's possible to do anything about the October 7 libs without doing any of this kind of dodgy answering.
It's a simple matter of fact that many if not most of us, at least in NA have started with the default lib programming. There clearly is a path through deprogramming that creates likeminded people who then support people like Zohran. Playing the word gymnastics like Mamdani does enables libs to take on some of these ideas instead of rejecting all of them because of one thought-terminating slogan. That puts them on the deprogramming path. I don't think this contradicts any long-term leftist goals.
I think a lot of people have already given up on reform like Zoran have and believe that revolution is the only path to change which is probably true.
The problem is that you are only allowed to truly turn on someone when they start to compromise on their values. Usually with reformist they do that way before they start to win any elections. Zoran has made minor speech compromises but in his values he hasn't really
I feel like a lot of leftists are preemptively shooting their load early before Zoran has committed any major mistakes. Do I believe Zoran will eventually fail because he starts compromising too much like Bernie Sanders Yes probably. But criticizing him this hard now is a tad unfair.
Compared to all other leaders, including China and Russia, Zohran's position is actually far more uncompromising right now.
That's just nuance and working with the public. He's literally pro-palestinian. I don't understand why we need to paint everybody as an enemy because, what, they haven't asked for the expulsion of every last Israeli?
I don't think we're doing that. We can critique our own and we should. We should do a lot more of this before a candidate is locked in for an election. That doesn't mean we don't vote for those candidates at the election. I think almost anyone here who lives in NYC would vote for Zohran.
I agree. When I said we I really meant the tankies. I often tend to say "we" rather than "you" for some reason
It's because ml's aren't trying to strategically win power and influence within the current system -- they want to tear it down completely. Mamdani and Trump are just 2 parts of the same whole to them.
'Israel has the right to exist' he said, then added 'as a state with equal rights'
Israel is by definition not a state with equal rights. This is a great way to answer the question to statisfy libs while also showing the issue with Israel: their Apartheid. Which is the raison d'etre of Israel as a Jewish ethnostate. Adding the equal rights part means believing Israel doesn't have a right to exist.
Liberal Zionism is still Zionism and so is the two-state solution proposed by the West, no matter how you put it. This is still clear-as-day support for a Euroanglo-Zionazi state. Please don't fall for prophetic entryism.
For Palestinians, to be subjected to almost a century of Lebensraum from Europeans and now recently others from other Western nations and then be told "Hey! Maybe we should live together in harmony with rainbows and sunshine to share!" is degrading beyond comprehension. Adding "with equal rights" means jack squat.
Not a single inch for Euroanglo-Zionazis. They know exactly where they come from.
Zionism by its very definition means not supporting equal rights, because it's based on Jewish surpremacy. Zohran says he will support sanctions on Israel until it abliges by international law. Which we both know Israel will never do.
This is giving Israel a condition which we know it will never abide by. It's like saying "I support China's right to exist as a neoliberal capitalist country".
See that's where the Liberal Zionism spin comes in, Liberal Zionism suggests that land claims to Palestine by Euroanglo-Zionazi are steadfast and not impeded, current and future settler-colonialists are welcomed while advocating for Western style "democracy", "human rights", "equal rights" and other Western lib horseshit for both Palestinians and Euroanglo-Zionazis.
Both in theory and practice, it's a completely contradictory "ideology" that only serves to justify settler-colonialism where Palestinians obviously get the short end of the stick, if they get to get any at all.
Suggesting that progressive politics should be implemented to a settler-colonial entity that he already agrees should exist won't change the fact that it is a settler-colonial entity occupying indigenous land rightfully belonging to Palestinians in full. No amount of "equal rights" will change that, only resistance by the occupied will. This isn't the smart move we think it is, it's just obvious Liberal Zionism wordvomit from Mamdani to appeal to his audience whom are, at the very least, Liberal Zionists.
Here you make a good point but don't Palestinians resistance groups also advocate for an equal-rights solution?
Yeah they do.. As much as I'd want to cast my feelings about that aside (I have a lot), I don't think I can muster a coherent thought about it without my blood boiling in the process...
From what little I know and from my understanding, it's a goal that, once attained, would (hopefully) eventually change. The reality is that Palestinian resistance groups are not only facing against the Euroanglo-Zionazi entity, but also against compradors like the PA, against US MIC and NATO. My best guess here is that they're keeping their goals grounded in terms of what is realistically achievable, relative to their material conditions..
Someone who knows better could probably tell you more than I could, though..
Well yeah but Zohran kinda does the same here. He's giving some small platitudes but in policy what it would mean is full on BDS. And Israel will never oblige by any international law similar to Apartheid South Africa. Zohran literally wrote BDS papers.
What happens in reality instead of equal rights kumbaya is the Apartheid will simply fall apart and most of the colonists will go back to Europe and the US because they don't get free money anymore to colonize Palestinian land.
Zohran is not perfect but he's not Matt Duss or Graham Platner. I don't see a reason to actively oppose him yet.
Yeah but to complete the square, there has to be praise for the murder of Palestinian politicians. I assume that's about the strike in Doha and a brief search only shows them "being concerned" over it, not praising it. Of course it's a meme so there's no point litigating the accuracy to the T. I'm sure things aren't the same behind closed doors. But if there's a src for the lib praising Palestinian politicians' deaths that would be helpful.
They consistently demonize the Houthis, Hamas, and anyone fighting for their lives against Israel. Only a single democrat (Omar) didn't give standing ovations to Netanyahu when he visited congress earlier this year.
Someone else I'm sure has collected plenty of these.
Ah yeah, if you cast a wider timeline net then there's definitely been praise for killing Palestinian politicians.
Eww Newsweek
Ok and? Are all these liberal leaders tweets and statements directly linked there fabricated?
It’s about not bringing revenue to a fascist mouthpiece.