Modlog: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693?page=1&actionType=All&userId=21053985 , banned by @goat@sh.itjust.works
For context, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, and got into a few arguments.
More context:
It started (to my knowledge) with this comment, goat pinged db0 after he downvoted a comment
a note on the uyghurs (click to show
For the record, I believe that the Uyghurs are mistreated by the CCP, and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses, but there's a lack of evidence that it's a genocide specifically (especially since it seems to target the religion, rather than the ethnic group).
Goat banned IndustryStandard, leading to this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/ leading to goat commenting this:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21070262
He mentions this:
We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.
Which I find ironic, since there was some vote manipulation happening, which goat did nothing about (and could be behind), but I'll get to that later.
After some more arguments, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies:
He said that it's different for LW (lemmy.world) and SJW (sh.itjust.works, not the other word). He then poster the "Tank Man" picture to !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com, as he expected us to retaliate (being tankies, according to him). We did not, in fact, retaliate: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21089819
He also posted this in tankiejerk: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52268655, https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20733015.
He also may have done vote manipulation, and at the very least allowed it.
Take, for example, this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21091723
Per lemvotes, it was downvoted by the following users:
The relevant ones here are:
- zedbite@lemmy.world,
- Alpacaaca@lemmy.cafe,
- chirichiri@sh.itjust.works.
If you look through other comments, they downvoted me and other users near-systemically, while upvoting comments made by goat.
For example, take a look at their (respective) lemvotes profile pages: https://lemvotes.org/user/zedbite@lemmy.world https://lemvotes.org/user/Alpacaaca@lemmy.cafe https://lemvotes.org/user/chirichiri@sh.itjust.works
They have all downvoted exclusively arguments against goat and others, and were made almost at the same time.
After a bit more arguing (I'm not posting the specific comments because it's tedious, and they're easy to see by scrolling through goat's profile.) goat decided to ban all dbzer0 users from meanwhileongrad, I think this comment marks when he decided to do this, but I may be wrong.
note on the post that comment was in reply to
I think this reply (by unruffled) was taken out of context. Unruffled is absolutely not defending what's happening to the Uyghurs, they're saying that a lot of people have a double standard, where they will not hesitate to condemn the Uyghur genocide, but hesitate on the gaza one, especially when the gaza one is more severe and urgent. To quote them directly:
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying but of course they misrepresented it. You know exactly what Americans are like. They couldn't give a shit about the uyghurs, except as a way to China bash and feel superior. I also explicitly said later in the comments I agreed it was a genocide. They're just doin' the usual bad faith takes.
Feel free to quote me lol
Since this goat had been banned from dbzer0 for being hostile:
https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=63615
the dude who has admitted on Lemmy to being a former member of several neo-nazi forums because he finds nazis "interesting" is being an asshole. that's shocking.
He's a master debater. He needs to masterdebate everyday otherwise he get depressed and can't sleep
on how many trash alts are you gonna make that stupid fucking adolescent joke? did you consider at all the first ten times you made it that maybe people weren't laughing because you're a fucking idiot?
i wonder if the idiot has been banned from those same forums, me thinks they have for being too much of a troll for them,. other forums will tolerate alot less than lemmy and reddit, they ban much more freely,.
many anarchists used to be members of authcom communities because they found it interesting. i don't think what our worldviews were when we were young defines who we are
Is that true? For what value of “many”? My impression is that—in the Anglosphere anyway—“auth” communists who once were anarchists is even more common. We’re fed a lifetime of anti-communist propaganda, and comparatively little ant-anarchist, and I think that people seldom arrive there along a straight path.
I’d like to see a breakdown of anarchists per capita by country. I think it’s predominantly a Western movement, but I don’t have data to back that up.
"comparatively" doesn't make it actually little. Assuming they don't think you're unserious, walk on a street and tell someone you're an anarchist and they'll think you're a terrorist. Tell them you're a {insert popular alt-right party here} member and they'll just think you're weird and avoid you. Tell them you're a communist and they'll probably have a tamer response thinking you're just deluded. You're not gonna arrive at anarchism along a straight path either.
"West" has a lot of definitions; let's just say Global North. The places where anarchist movements hold the most power (hah) are probably areas of Spain—Global North indeed—and the Global South's Rojava and Chiapas, under the DAANES and Zapatistas respectively.
Minor tidbit, the Zapatistas directly and explicitly reject the label "anarchist," they see their own movement as organic and self-driven more than anything. Not saying you can't use them as an example of anarchist-adjacent structures, but they quite clearly dislike the term being applied to themselves.
That's true. It's also worth noting that since they are states that hold power, they obviously all have some distance from anarchism, the ideology against power and states.
I mean, that also applies to the Spanish anarchists as well, who employed labor camps and had some degree of hierarchical structure. At the end of the day, anarchists do have to make compromises with what authority they consider valid and what they don't. I'd say the Spanish anarchists had their own "state" as well, and this applies to all anarchism in historical example. There's a difference between the idealized, perfect anarchism, and the anarchism forced to reconcile the need for some hierarchy, especially when defending itself from outside forces.
Ultimately, while they reject the label of anarchist, the Zapatistas do have a fairly horizontalist approach, which is why I said they can be considered when discussing anarchist-adjacent structures, their merits, and any problems they may run into.
Not sure this is a sizable dataset, but I can be added to the pile of anarcho-communist -> Marxist-Leninist. It took far more reading and research to overcome my anti-AES bias than it did to accept anarchism as an alternative.
lemme know when those authcom communities are advocating purging the western world of anyone who isn't white and enslaving the rest of the world in a christian theocracy.
"Kill all Jews" and "kill all kulaks" have both killed enough people that this is a distinction without a difference.
it takes some industrial grade turbo-shitlib horseshoe theory mental gymnastics to be able to puke up some verbal diarrhea like that.
Nice phrasing.
thanks, I have a lot of practice calling out fascist liberals.
Then why did the Soviets kill so fucking many people? And don't get me started on our old friend Mao Zedong. The pursuit of socialist ideals under vanguard parties has caused enough mass murder across enough regimes that it's part of what you sign up for under authoritarian communism.
so what you're saying is, you prefer nazis over communists. what a very typical liberal thing to say.
My live reaction:
By the way the word "lib," it doesn't mean what you think it means.
oh here we are, the lib is going to educate us all, people. straight from the “superpower” with the least educated population, but he knows what he knows because he’s spent years getting circlejerked by other libs.
no, no, put those books down, we won’t need them where he's taking us.
The 1930s famine was a combination of dramatic weather problems in pre-industrial agriculture, kulak's killing their livestock and burning their grain in order to resist collectivization, and mismanagement. The Communist Party of Ukraine hid how bad the famine was getting from the politburo, which made the problems even worse as it delayed aid. It wasn't intentional, and after the 1930s famine the USSR was food secure outside of World War II, when the Nazis took Ukraine (the USSR's breadbasket) and intentionally attacked farmland.
Mao faced similar issues with famine, large-scale weather problems coupled with mismanagement. Neither famine was intentional, so framing it as "mass murder" erases that once both countries industrialized, life expectancy doubled as compared to pre-famine, pre-socialist conditions. Famine was just incredibly common before industrializing farming, and the communists, when in power, provided high quality healthcare and land redistributiob, education, etc.
Kulaks were not a “people,” they were owners of private property, specifically farmland, who had serfs work the land. They lived off of the exploitation of others. They were the feudal rough-equivalent of the petit bourgeois class. So of course they weren’t going to embrace socialism or land collectivization, or having to work a day in their lives.
This is what happens to all of us who’ve lived a lifetime of anti-communist propaganda. Unless you take the time & effort to go back and examine all of that received wisdom, you’ll continue believing that Kulaks were a people genocided by the evil Slavic Bolsheviks. And then we have to—as patiently as we can muster—explain the same basic things to people over and over again.
Kulaks were an economic class. If someone thinks otherwise any discussion on the topic is going to get misconstrued real fast.
"If you change the word "Nazis" to "black people" then you see how rascist antifa are!"
Ok, I'm on it:
When they were founded
you've got to be on some next level stupidity to believe that.
Mmhhmm, because Nazis don't love pretending to be communists on the internet, and half of them aren't run by Russian fascists in the first place.