this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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something nice
For everyone, right?
That is what socialism is, everyone.
You too can work in 996 heaven, just mind the suicide nets.
The workers don’t own the means of production.
Real socialism is stateless, whn will china give the mean of production to the people?
They’ve stated the goal is by 2049.
Hilarious. When do you expect that goalpost will move?
What’s funny? They’re making incredible progress, and have an extremely high approval rating. Liberals seem to be in the dark on what’s going on beyond their borders.
What is this incredible progress? What is it measured in and why has it taken 75 years to not even be done? Glad to hear the CCP has extremely high approval rating. How are the political competitions rating in contrast and which non-state controlled institute made the polls?
You sure have a funny way of having a discussion. Rude right wingers.
Their economy is stable and growing rapidly. The citizens are enjoying modern conveniences, ie retirements, medical services, job security, the best public transportation in the world, etc. The grid is rapidly going renewable. Legislation is maturing to protect citizens. Growth across the board. The government asks for input from the people and they listen.
Your lack of knowledge isn’t an excuse for being a dick.
They've caused the extinction of several species. They directly contribute a huge amount of carbon and ozone degrading gases and increasingly do so every year. Their cities are flooding massively due to climate change.
Medical services aren't a modern convenience, especially not in China which has had available healthcare there for thousands of years. Neither is the idea of retirement as the Chinese people take care of their elders.
The Chinese government does not ask for input. The government is highly fascist and everything you say is very controlled. Try being gay in China. Try expressing political ideas against the current government. Remember the COVID whistleblowers in China? Remember Tibet?
There is NO safe sky daddy otherworldly government coming to save you or protect you or anyone. These wealthy people are in it for themselves and they are lying. Xi Jing Ping doesn't give a FUCK about you, China, his people, or socialism - he cares about power and having money. The global people are different than the leaders - THEY care about each other, their future as a collective, that things are just or fair. They are not their leaders.
Are you sure you’re not talking about the United States? You’re very confidently wrong about most of what you said. Passion is good. Just put it towards reading a decent book.
Which part am I wrong about exactly?
Yes, the same can be said of any nondemocratic government, which is most world governments including the US. The US is not democratic and has not ever been. They lie that they are for the same reason Russia and China lie that they are fair and democratic - to gaslight their people into complacency.
Most people are great. Most governments are not.
What book exactly should I read?
I don’t have much time. Let’s just say all. Go read “Blackshirts and Reds” by Michael Parenti. It’s a great starting point.
That book actually refutes your claims re: China. As in the author disagrees with your sentiments.
China isn’t the focus in that book, but it’s a wonderful book when in comes to communism and the red scare. A little preoccupied.
It’s dated. I believe it’s from 1997. China has made a lot of progress since then. Generally the problem with liberals is that they don’t understand what communism is. You’re an anarchist that gets their info from main stream media. Not too far off.
Edit: got a chance to take a gander. Saying the book refutes my claim is quite a stretch. It doesn’t touch on much more than capitalism creating less than desirable hours and wages. Not a huge surprise w capitalism, but things have improved since then.
So you haven't even read your own source? He is explicitly critical of China and state capitalism and authoritarianism in general.
So I ask again - which book exactly should I read?
And btw, I don't only get my info from "main stream media," such a weird narrative you've concocted which also does not refute anything I've said or answered any questions asked.
You're a fascist and fascist sympathizer who supports slavery and war.
That's rich. Being called a fascist by a liberal. An "anarchist liberal." Who knew such a thing existed, but here you are.
Of course I've read the book. He barely talks about China. The book was an educational source on communism and as the title suggests- Mussolini and the USSR. I already explained it wasn't about modern China, but you've conveniently ignored that. Not much for good faith arguments, are you? It's evident that you're unfamiliar with communism. Using capitalism on the journey to socialism isn't some new concept for anyone other than those with their heads in the sand on the topic. Karl Marx teaches that capitalism can create the conditions necessary for socialism by developing productive forces and class consciousness. Let me guess, unfamiliar with Marx?
https://studylatam.com/karl-marx-on-capitalism-socialism-ideas-significance/
You skim a book a think you understand it. Fucking tool. You're not here to debate, you're here to be a jackass.
How exactly am I supporting slavery and war? China hasn't been in a war since 1979, and I've made it clear that I'm against capitalism.
Read on. Maybe you'll get something out of it. You sure aren't getting anything decent from MSNBC.
Erza F. Vogel - Deng Xiaoping and the Transformation of China
https://archive.org/details/the-east-is-still-red-chinese-socialism-in-the-21st-century
https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/socialism-with-chinese-characteristics
https://archive.org/details/the-governance-of-china
I am not a liberal, that is yet another narrative you've made up in your head.
You used that book as a source to defend modern China and your position on it. You also barely have given any coherent points. Misunderstanding (as if) is on you and your failures.
I've read Das Kapital.
You made an argument and tried to support it with something directly contradicting you - you're the jackass here, lol.
You fully support China's slavery and anti-free speech and anti-democracy as I mentioned in a previous comment re: Taiwan, Hong Kong, Uyghers, Tibet. Go read it again.
Declared war is different than warfare which can be physical but also economical, cultural, etc.
You've been tricked by yet another "benevolent leader" rhetoric. It's all just stories. When we look at what China is actually doing, it's the same as all the other countries without direct democracy - fascist control and slavery. No matter what their stupid lies say. And you support that and are apparently fully fine with their slavery and fascism. So yeah that makes you a fascist.
You're certainly not a leftist.
What is China "actually doing?" You haven't backed up anything that you've said. I'm ready for the wall of western media making shit up to support the ruling classes narrative.
I threw a book at you to bring you up to speed on communism, stating quite literally that it was a good start. You searched for China and stated the whole book refuted my argument. Lazy.
And how do you determine that?
You don't know what China has done to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, the South China Sea, the Uyghers, North Korea, their citizens in the US via Chinese secret police, citizens in Africa....? Go look it up. Slavery is well established there.
I don't support the ruling class, I've told you that, but you certainly support China's ruling class.
You linked the book to BARELY defend your point about China, which isn't communist anyway by your own admission- https://lemmy.world/post/34398235/18798455
Here's the comment chain ^ I specified China isn't this utopia you claim, and then you cited that book.
So no, it wasn't to mansplain a topic I am already aware of. It was to defend your love of fascists and slavers.
You already lost anyway by refusing to argue in good faith before. You posted 1 source that disagrees with you. How pathetic. If you want real debate, then go back to my original post to you and argue it in good faith. Until then, you lost.
Lost? What did you win? You want some kind of liberal participation medal?
I’m well aware of your claims that you so happily deep throated from western media. It’s all garbage. You’re supporting the ruling class by relaying their stories. Just like the good right winger you are.
Okay, I accept your loss and that you quit, fascist. No more to discuss. May you live in the world you want to create, my curse to you.
And how do the things you mentioned there further the handing over of the means of production to the workers?
Since there are no free speech in China, how can the party trust that the input they receive is correct?
Valid questions. Handing over the means of production is a long term goal. They’ve said the goal is to have a full on socialist economy by 2049. Having state owned businesses is a step in the right direction. It’s always used as a scare tactic in western media, but it’s literally the goal. Large corporations are the enemy of progress. You need to have something to transfer, right?
I’m not exactly understanding what you mean by no free speech. Western media has painted China in a disgusting light making you think you’ll be disappeared for speaking up. It simply isn’t the case. Here’s a link to what I was referencing:
https://peoplesdispatch.org/2025/08/07/chinese-people-submit-over-3-million-suggestions-for-governments-15th-five-year-plan/
Damn, 100 years of unfulfilled promises. Do you think the communist party could have stayed in charge if China was a democracy?
China is a democracy.
Oh please.
Let me rephrase it for you: if China was a well functioning, pluralistic democracy with free contestation, right to opinion, assembly and everything else that makes a democracy a democracy, do you think the communist party could have sat for a 100 years with unfulfilled promises without the Chinese deciding someone else should have a go?