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Trigger warning: abuse, suicide First off, I'm not taking about guys who call themselves nice and act like manipulative jerks. I'm talking about people who are legitimately nice, caring and loving. As such, this doesn't only apply to men. Storytime: a good number of years ago, I got to know someone who I not too long after started a relationship with. She was loving, kind, and caring - really, what I look for when it comes to relationship material. Except... She still lived at home, and her "mother" was horrifically abusive. Unfortunately, also very intelligent, so that she was always a couple of steps ahead of you. Well, she also got abusive towards me very quickly but was such a master of manipulation and Gaslighting that I had no clue what the fuck was going on. I also didn't know how abuse worked, so I was ripe for the picking. A year and a horrific half later, I got "kicked out" (in other words, my then girlfriend was gaslit into projecting all of the faults of her own mother onto me leading to a messy breakup) because I started asking too many questions and didn't simply accept what I was being told, including that I allegedly had memory problems (which turned out to be pure and utter bullshit to gaslight me). So, I finished last, I lost the person who I thought was going to be the love of my life and I was ready to marry eventually. You know who also finished last? The women who would have liked to been with her father, who is a great guy. The likelihood that any one of them could have been worse than her is exceedingly small. You have to achieve that kind of evil first. My ex? Still living at her parents' place. Word made it around that my ex's and her father's cars at some point regularly had nails and screws under their tires, which mysteriously stopped when one of the father's friends told him "you know exactly who did that if you're honest with yourself". Well, I did a shit ton of reading on psychology and abuse to understand what the hell I went through. And also in the hopes of helping them, but as mentioned, it didn't work. But the fact that I know so much about it, have experienced it myself and tend to try and listen to people when they tell me about their situations means that I seem to be a magnet for victims of abuse. I always try to help. I know how awful my situation was and if I can help someone out of a similar situation, I will do what I can. But it's often frustrating. But I actually was able to help someone out of an abusive situation. After a suicide attempt due to the effects of the abuse I landed in the hospital, and got to know someone there fairly well. She was also in an abusive situation. And I actually was able to help her out of it! Mind you, it was after I had lost count of her suicide attempts, but hey, you take the victories you get. So hey, at least in that situation it wasn't as bad... But fast forward to the last few months. A colleague I've known for a little over a year and a half tells me more and more about her friend with benefits. She tells me almost right from the start, that it's a toxic relationship. I hoped it's not that bad. After a couple of tell tale signs too many, yup, it's abuse. Long story short, we also started developing feelings for each other and were hoping to help each other through what we were dealing with. Well, the fwb made sure to fuck it up. She even said, otherwise, she's an afterthought for him (even though he expects to be at the top of her priority list), but in a case where he might lose her, he will fight for her. When I asked how, she described exactly what he did in my case. But still doesn't see that he did it in my case. And now the feelings she told me about apparently weren't feelings but something else, and he's suddenly not as bad and besides the constant manipulation and if you ask me rapey behavior, he's actually quite OK... Like don't get me wrong, my primary concern is that she gets out of that situation, which doesn't look particularly likely at the moment, but to get back to the topic, yet another case of the nice guy finished last. Rant over. TL;DR: fuck abusers and the people who enable them. And why the fuck are they often more successful than the people who don't abuse people.

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[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

"Nice guys finish last" tends to be something /r/niceguys like to say.

Think about it my man, by making this statement you're implying that nice guys ought to get the girl, and that's just not how life works, or how girls work.

Don't try to be a nice guy or a bad boy or anyone - just figure out how to be your best self.

If you still think that being your best self is rescuing abused girls then you're still doing it wrong.

That's what I was trying to get at with saying I'm not referring to manipulative jerks - the kind you find on r/niceguys. Because they aren't nice. Yeah, that's not how life works. And that's fucked up, which is my point, and goes to show that yes, nice guys often do finish last, even though that statement has been given a bad reputation by places like r/niceguys. Being nice, carrying and loving is an inherently good quality, that we want to see in people. So when it gives you a disadvantage while dating, giving the advantage to the abusive asshole, then you start wondering what the hell is wrong with the world (among many other things). I try to be my best self - regardless of the whole dating thing - because I find it important to be someone with a strong moral compass, who cares for people. We already have enough selfish assholes on this planet and I refuse to be one, even if that does negatively affect other parts of my life. But man, does it get frustrating. And how does that mean "I'm doing it wrong"? I've lived abuse. I know how horrific it is. Why would it not be being my best self to help other abuse victims get out of their abusive situations and help them improve their lives when I can?

[-] SpoonyBard@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Here’s the issue. The nice guys you’re talking about, the “real nice guys” don’t care about advantages and disadvantages of being nice because they aren’t being nice in order to gain something from others… cause that’s not actually being nice. They aren’t being nice and then getting upset that their kindness isn’t being noticed when dating or that they get upset when their kindness is taken advantage of. They are nice because they believe being decent to others is the best way to live and treat others, even if it’s sometimes taken advantage of by others. They find more in the act of being nice itself, than what they may benefit from it or even what possible negative results may come from it from other people taking advantage.

The second you said “when it gives you a disadvantage while dating” you’ve already crossed the line into r/niceguys. You’re trying to give kindness a value that can be traded or points and essentially stating it deserves something in return.

Don’t be nice to gain something from others. That isn’t being nice. That’s being manipulative. Be nice knowing you aren’t going to gain anything in return, but still choose to be nice anyway.

As for helping others.. it sounds weird when you put the two topics together. Helping people that are being abused.. and dating. I don’t want to make assumptions, but talking about both of these things together makes it sound more like your main focus is dating, but kind of using “helping others” as a guise. It’s one thing to want to help abuse victims, but it’s another if you’re essentially saying that you want to help them out of their abusive relationship and into a relationship with you. That doesn’t sound like the goal is to actually help them. It sounds like “come date me because I’m a nice guy and will treat you better”. Then getting frustrated that the don’t, because you “deserve” the relationship because your a ‘nice guy’ and it’s an afterthought that it may so happen to benefit them too.

Maybe I’m reading into it wrong. This is a complex conversation over a couple paragraphs, so.. kind of hard to gauge accuracy over what is being said.

That's the next frustrating part - as soon as you mention something like that, many people assume that you're nice just hoping that it gets you laid or something. Of course, if you're doing something nice to someone just to get laid - of course that's manipulative. And that's the thing - manipulative assholes tend to be more successful in that regard! I insist on being nice despite it making things more difficult when it comes to dating. I don't use it to guilt trap people into doing anything with me they don't want to. The one time I was able to help someone out of an abusive situation (which, to be clear, I didn't do to somehow get together with her - I never had any interest in a relationship with her), that was actually one of the main things we worked on - ensuring that she listens more to herself and what she wants, and that she has every right to say no, no matter who it is. But it's frustrating to see when people do start using guilt tripping and end up getting way further than I do. My moral compass is more important. It doesn't change the fact that that being a disadvantage can be pretty frustrating. Think about it like this: imagine you have a job at a normal company - let's say in public works - and make an OK living. It's not great, you really have to budget, but you can afford rent and groceries. But then you see your neighbor making multiple times what you make - by manipulating and scamming people. You will never do the "work" he does, because it's morally reprehensible. That doesn't change the fact that when you look at the situation, you probably go: "that's not exactly fair".

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago

Sorry kid, you just don't get it.

this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2025
6 points (100.0% liked)

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