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I see their point
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this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2025
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Witches VS Patriarchy
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I don't think this would work out the way it's intended. So you make a curfew law, which is obeyed by the men you aren't worried about, but the criminals don't because they are already planning crimes. Who enforces the new law? Police are overwhelmingly male and have a high rate of domestic and sexual abuse compared to gen pop. So hire new women Police? How many? How to pay for them? How to even get women to volunteer? And then you still have the criminals, still violent, still breaking curfew. So what's accomplished? Reminds me of the drug war laws, and drugs won that war. Addressing this problem in this way won't work, even with instant lethal force, some men would persist. You can't fix deep human flaws with laws. But what do I know, I hardly ever leave the house.
Do you have a source for saying police have high rates of DA perps?
Here's what I found: https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-families-experience-domestic-violence/ https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/etd/1862/ https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/audio/1.7189431 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/industrial-and-organizational-psychology/article/officerinvolved-domestic-violence-a-call-for-action-among-io-psychologists/2A39727AEB2041178781D027E7D365BE
This last one is about gen pop dv https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499891/
Please consider this list to be incomplete as it's all I could find from my labyrinthine bookmarks I use in place of a functioning memory
Yes that's what I thought, it comes back to the 1990s studies. I'm a dv outreach worker, there's not much research in PPDA.
1st source - talking about studies from the 90s that are now horribly out of date (eg don't take into account changes in recruitment) and have massive methodological flaws (eg not considering the context of coercive control). 2nd link- isn't a study, it's an essay, and it says itself it's anywhere between 4.8 to 40%
I'm not disputing there's likely more in police. I'd also expect there to be more in other jobs with power, control and access to vulnerable people including medicine, security guards, teaching etc.
I fear it is both under reported and under prosecuted in addition to being under researched, can't imagine why that would be... it's the same with any power structures, be it police, priest, or politician. Victims are silenced to preserve the power.
Agree
You think it's improved?
More women, increased reporting etc change rates
Well, more women I'll buy. Good thing we can't be assholes, and marginalized people trying to join an insular privileged in-group are never pressured to be physical avatars of all that group's vices.
Yeah let me find it again just a sec
There's a well known study showing 40% will admit to or even brag about it if ypu rephrase it. Im on mobile, so just look up police 40% study.
The actual number would almost certainly be higher, but thats very specificity over sensitivity.
I know the 40% study I talk about it below. It's over 30 years old and has massive methodological flaws
Yeah, it's close enough, and I had cops around growing up. 40% seems shockingly low.
Don't defend cops. It's not a good look.
I'm not disputing abusers are drawn to jobs with power and control including police, military, security guards, medicine and politics. I don't like to see inaccurate data flying round and police perpetrated DA is an underresearched field.
I expect youve worked with trafficked people before; you know how that tends to work.
I know where I am, they tend to be involved with major imports of drugs of abuse.
And nobody likes getting their life dug into like that.
So when it's these fuckers, into all that shit, with the ability to kill with no social consequence, i expect the researchers have a lot of 'training accidents'. So it's going to stay under researched.
Hire female police -> arrest any man out after curfew -> profit.
What's the problem? Do you really need ideas for how we can afford this? How about...
fire all of the fucking useless Nazi cops that are currently paid with tax dollars
fines in addition to jail time for men out after curfew
wealth tax
Lots of options out there! You are not very imaginative.
Ah yes the old let's solve our nazi cop problem with more cops. So you are going to lay off all the the current male police and replace them with female police, ever heard of a police union? Do you realize the extent of the corruption present there? So I guess you will have to eliminate them too, and the politicians and donor class that backs them. And then you'll just make more of the same problem but with a gender swap after you've successfully fought the entire government and rebuilt it but female... and fines and jail time that's all enforcement issues, which we can't make work now so I'd doubt it would change much if a woman was the one failing at it. I don't think I'm being unimaginative, if anything you aren't considering the implications of the thought experiment enough. Wealth tax, for the people who made their wealth violently suppressing and exploiting the working class with armies of private security and the police and military in their pocket. You aren't even talking about the original idea anymore you are talking about revolution, so my other point stands, how are you going to get women to volunteer for a bloody and likely futile war with the established powers? Are you organizing? Are you buying firearms and supplies? Training with said? Are you going to protect them from the backlash when the powers that be find out you are formenting revolt? When they are black bagged to a concentration camp before they can even organize effectively will you support their children their families in their absence? What are the logistics of that? How much hyperbolic "you should solve the problem by solving an even more impossible problem" should we be bothering with here? Did I miss anything? Did I imagine enough for you?
I see, you must be American.
PS, putting aside all of your other whining about imperfect solutions, yes, literally just doing the gender swap (or applying other criteria when hiring police) would probably solve a lot of policing problems:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J012v16n04_05
Yes and the op is from the Uk I think. But I don't believe the situation would be that much different with their police and political climate. Maybe if I were chinese where the women and children generally feel safe walking at night alone, or Swedish, or Norwegian, or Canadian or Rwandan, then my perspective on the intractibility of this issue under a completely diffent kind of government might be different. Is there a place on earth where this isn't a problem for women? Has there ever been? Even in "safe" countries women still feel this anxiety. I don't think anyone will ever solve this problem legalistically. You may emilorate it, but the problem is rooted in a flaw in human nature that we won't easily be rid of.
Are you even reading your comments?? Yes, of FUCKING COURSE there is no perfect solution, and of FUCKING COURSE ameliorating the problem to some extent is worthwhile. What is your opinion here - that we shouldn't do anything because ahh big systems are scary and it's either revolution or nothing???
You being American is clear from your wilful ignorance and your lack of interest in holding your institutions accountable / improving them.
My opinion is that all legalistic solutions to any problem will favor those in power who write the law, fail to solve the issue they were installed to fix, and expand the criminalization of otherwise non offending human beings. I think the solution to men harassing women in public after dark is to address what leads them to offend, and either remove their desire to do it or remove their ability to do it, I doubt any males would volunteer however. This could be as banal or as nasty as you want to be without requiring unreliable enforcement. If the government can't make women safe then they should make themselves safe, better forgiveness than permission. And it is revolution or nothing when you are talking about changing entrenched power structures, reforms rarely last and never fully address the core structural roots of the issues. as for the method of revolt, in my country they will not give up real power once they have it without violence, the history of non violent revolution is checkered with successes and failures none of which will be completely applicable to any given secondary country. Yes, clarity... I would chance a guess that you have never tried accountabilty or improvement under a corrupt oligarcical authoritarian police state that propagandizes it's population from birth to grave. Shall we compare the size of our persecutions and sufferings so we know who deserves to have an opinion? I don't feel I'm holding onto ignorance, if anything I've been researching 200% more than i do in any given normal day. I feel more that you came looking for an internet argument and are running out of ammo so you would rather use coarse language and baseless personal attacks than address the topic. But yes I must be an American, i voiced an opinion on the internet instead of swallowing it and leaving it to the keyboard warriors. Thank you for reminding me not to do that.
All I'm hearing is that you are more interested in ranting about how you are powerless to effect any change whilst ignoring the viable (albeit imperfect) solutions right in front of us. Thank you for refusing to make the world a better place out of some misplaced principle.
All you appear to be hearing is whatever the version of me in your head is saying, but thats fine, i can sort of follow what he might be saying. I myself am in fact powerless, and celebate, and a shut in, and cognitively disabled, I wouldn't even remember you exist if the application didn't notify me, or recall what i wrote in this thread with out constantly reffering back to it. I guess that's everyone's business since we are being so personal, funny how its only my person that is on display. And the crux of my position is that I do not believe it to be a viable solution in any real or meaningful way, much in the same way that i believe the current government and law enforcement with their inability to prevent crime and unwillingness to prosecute violence against women is not a viable solution. So, since hyperbole is the soup of the day I guess, I will take the extreme position, and state it's solution; I believe that all women should collectively agree not to tolerate violations of their bodily autonomy any longer. I believe they should collaborate on designing a kind of kit, to be built by women for their self defense. What is in that kit should be a very personal choice, but I imagine one that is easy to carry, instantaneous to access, and can deliver incapacitating, castrating, or killing force to an assailant with minimal effort. I believe these kits should be given to every girl on earth as soon as she has the motor skills to use it without cost to her, and she should be trained to use it effectively, and without hesitation. I also think women should agree to no longer allow an evolutionary reward for being an abuser or rapist. I believe in a generation, maybe two, of this kind of unified direct action, we as a species might produce males capable of alleviating women's anxiety about walking outside at night. And all without inviting a facist institution to give lip service to women's security while reinforcing the power structures at least partially responsible for the problem in the first place. And as for the backlash, the abusers can't eliminate all women, but all women could certainly eliminate the abusers. Is that still too opaque? If they won't give you peace then you take it. I'll return with the notification, we can talk about whatever you like, I won't remember any of the previous comments if you wait a day, maybe you could say to me what you wished you would have said to that one that hurt you. I'd be confused but I'd still answer. Or you could say somthing else personal that makes you a human instead of some archtype with little in the way of personally identifying characteristics other than anger and opposition. Or maybe you could value your time more than a useless male who's time is literally worthless