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Canada finally reveals the results of its universal basic income experiment (ecency.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by mintiefresh@piefed.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] Zacpod@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Show your work, please. I'm pretty sure it's closer to 25-30%.

Edit: confirmed. I did the math. It's closer to 35% for most people. Including income tax, sales tax, and property tax.

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Many middle class Canadian pay 25% or more just in income tax. Then you have to add sales taxes, property taxes, and the rest.

I would say he is about right.

The top income tax bracket is over 50%. If you are very high income, you can pay well over 30% just in income tax (overall).

For anybody that does not understand progressive income tax brackets, a top rate of 50% does not mean you pay 50% on all income. You pay nothing to a certain point, pay a lower percentage up to a certain level, and then it goes up on what you make beyond that level. On the 30,000th dollar you make, you might pay 25 cents tax. On the 200,000th dollar, you might pay 53 cents. On your first dollar, you pay nothing.

[-] figjam@midwest.social 5 points 2 weeks ago

Oh no! Won't someone think about the highest earners! #clutchpearls

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 1 points 6 hours ago

Sorry to have not gotten back to this.

I did not advocate for high earners (or for anybody actually). Your comment has nothing to do with mine.

I made no value judgements at all, did not take a political side, and I certainly did not clutch any pearls.

What I said, and tried to demonstrate, is that a statement (a mathematical calculation - not an opinion) was reasonably accurate.

I do advocate for accuracy and rationality though. Fact free politics bothers me (no matter the source or the target). So, your comment would certainly make me reach for my pearls if I had any.

[-] Eranziel@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

25% might be what comes off your pay cheque, sure. That's not actually how much income tax most people end up paying. How big of a refund did you get this year?

[-] Zacpod@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

So, I've done the math. Let's take someone with twice the avg canadian salary.
They're making $130k/year.
They pay about 29% tax. $38116/year.
Let's say they own property in a HCOL area. Maybe $3k/year property tax.
That leaves them with $88k left.
Assuming worst case scenario - they don't pay mortgage or rent or anything and spend every penny. So they're paying about $13332 in sales tax.
That leaves 75550 that they've spent before tax. Which is about 42% of their income going to tax paid, in total.
Again. That's worst case scenario. In reality, they're paying a mortgage and/or contributing to an RRSP or even paying rent. All of which would substantially reduce that percentage.

The idea that Canadians (on average) are paying 50% tax is just right wing propaganda bullshit designed to scare you in to cutting social programs in hope of getting a little trickle down action. Don't fall for it.

For me, I'm paying about 35% tax, in total. Including sales tax, income tax, and property tax. And I think I'm far closer to the "normal" percentage most middle class Canadians pay.

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

There are many other taxes. There are luxury taxes, payroll taxes, land transfer taxes, estate taxes, import duties, tariffs, and many excise taxes just as examples. There are a lot of “registrations” and tolls that are really just taxes. And the GST and often Provincial taxes are not just charged to the end consumer but in fact multiple times along the supply-chain in practice.

If you live in BC, your property tax is likely more than you suggest. If you drink, your sales tax will be as well. If you rent, how much are you paying to cover your landlords income tax? And again, there are many other taxes. Again using BC, gasoline tax is 37 cents a litre of tax before you tack on the GST. That can be 50%. And the tax on cigarettes can be 250%. What is your total tax rate if you spend your $88k “after-tax” income on gas and cigs?

Ontario slashed their liquor tax in half. Now it is only 30%.

I am not sure that saying 50% is propaganda and then calculating it to be 42% is a total slam dunk anyway. But it is also far from the worst case scenario as you left a lot of stuff out.

And, if it was 42%, you land on June 8 which is exactly when the Fraser Institute says tax freedom day is anyway. Those lying bastards!

But I get your point.

And I am quite happy with the way Canada manages taxation (though perhaps not spending). I am not trying to scare anybody into anything.