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It's Women's Fault
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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Whew Lad, you must be projecting.
I'm a man, I'm lonely. Why? Because I spent the last 30 years building a career and my social circle is tiny. My personal hobbies and interest took a back seat to building my company, helping my wife through a 2nd and then 3rd Masters Degree, and raising my Son.
Personal Hygiene? Showered at least every day. Dress Well? I'm in collars, slacks, and dress shoes at least 5 days a week. Smell Good? Yeah, got it covered. Smile? Yeah, got it covered. Show Respect? Yeah, got it covered. Practice Good Manners? Pretty rich coming from you.
You have a child's understanding of the world around and lack empathy. Go read a book.
You are correct, this wasn't targeted at me and I didn't fully absorb the content before replying to it. I'm going through a rough patch and it clouded me for a bit.
There's a chasm of difference between empathizing with a Klansman and empathizing with people who followed a normal, and I use that word loosely, cultural track. The two are so distinctly different that comparing them is absurd.
That guy and the way he lives his life are disgusting, do not associate me with them.
Well, yes. No qualifiers. Full stop. Ask anybody who's successfully done it. Arno Michaelis is particularly good at turning white supremacists back to the light because he was one, and knows the mindset.
Changing somebody's mind and world-view always starts with listening empathetically. What you don't offer is sympathy for abhorrent beliefs. It's hard to make the distinction, but that old saw about education granting the ability to hold a notion in one's mind without accepting it is relevant. I would argue that maturity means learning to offer kindness while maintaining strong personal and moral boundaries. Self-righteous fury might feel good, but it'll never get through to a Klansman, or an incel.
So, yes, you have to show empathy, but certainly not a pat on the back. Those are two different things. It's hard to hold the line between them at times, but it's the only way to effectively reach people with backwards belief systems. Frankly, I feel like a lot of people would rather be self-righteous than effective, because it's easier and feels good, and that's what I see in the too-common conflation of understanding with approval.
OK, but you're not actually offering a materially viable alternative to any of the underlying systemic issues that cause either of those problems.
It is also the liberal way to challenge bad ideas, as ideas only and not actually do anything about the underlying material causes & incentives that produce those ideas.
Correct.
The two fundamental things that drive misogyny among men are the intensity of inequality between men themselves (more specifically, the degree to which men with property can assert themselves over men without property), and the degree to which men can be integrated into some kind of productive social relationship with other men & women.
Very few men actually start with the premise that "Women are Dishwashers." That's a political claim that they arrive at after consistently losing out to other more socially, or economically successful men, and subsequently internalizing their position in that dynamic as immutable natural law.