217
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025
217 points (100.0% liked)
News
28981 readers
3840 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Huh, weird. I thought peaceful donvict was going to end all this, unlike "Genocide Joe" and Kamala.....
🤦♂️ 🙄
C’mon Jack, Biden was still shipping munitions until his last days in office. None of those assholes we’re going to stop this
Yeah but at least we could have retained our domestic civil liberties and our own right to civilly protest the genocide under the other guys? Now we have nothing, less than nothing.
Trump is, in more than one way, your punishment for trying to have civil liberties at home while funding genocide abroad. That contradiction was only ever going to result in one thing and that was Trump.
LOL, you think most Americans, let alone most Democrats, support funding genocide abroad?
Also, I love how people constantly blame anyone but the far right and their decades-long efforts for the culmination of donvict slithering into office. No one deserves a shitstain like donvict ruining the country and working to make the entire world worse.
Not enthusiastic support, but "Let's wait for Later™ before we do anything about this" is also support. The resulting anti-dissent defensive herd mentality is proof of that. You'll probably defend that as "strategic voting" or "picking your battles" or whatever, but nothing less than a resolute "No" is acceptable as a response to genocide.
Really? Because I can think of a few names. And in the first place things are only getting worse for the first world; the destruction of the American-European imperial alliance will be met with celebration over here, but let's not lose sight of the point. Keeping your civil rights without opposing genocide was a losing proposition from the very start, and no amount or "hold your nose and vote for her" will change that.
The centrist wing has no other policy they're willing to actually go to bat for.
We could have also not have a dept of DOGE, but that’s not the argument here. Enough whataboutism and just accept that there was no US candidate that was actual stand up to Israel.
You never deserved those liberties if it means you're okay with enabling genocide.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that anyone ever listened to my opinion on the subject.
You the People of America had a year-long referendum on the subject.
Those deaths did nothing to enhance our safety. They may have added to the power and wealth of a few of Netanyahu's cronies, and probably his family members. That's all.
No one said that.
Progressives tried to warn centrists that they would lose if they continued their support for genocide. Progressives were not significant enough to listen to, so they're not significant enough to blame.
Unless you want to admit that you were wrong and that democrats should have listened and dropped their support for genocide.
Um, lots of people said that, including donvict himself.
And when did I say Democrats shouldn't listen to progressives like me?
Progressives don't lie about Progressives' positions and then pretend they were talking about republicans when they get called on it.
Uh, progressives did vote third party, claiming that donvict would be no worse, possibly better. That's no lie. So yes, it was Republicans AND lots of "independents" and even progressives that said so. I watched them do it.
Also, playing the No True Scotsman with progressives....hilarious. You are not the arbiter of who is and who is not a progressive, although I know you'd like to call everyone you disagree with a "centrist". Have fun with that. If we play the purity game enough, virtually everyone can be declared a "centrist", but that's not very constructive is it?
So you're blaming progressives for harris' loss.
You're just straight up lying. Doubling down on your lie about progressives. Stop lying about progressives' positions and maybe someone will believe you when you say you're a progressive.
Fuck yourself idiot, this inaccurate blame game shit is functionally no different than maga shit.
Biden would have at least pretended to care! Because that's what good guys do.
Hey! biden cared! He cared what netanyahu wanted!
democrats arnt celebrating with the maga at all. keep your russian trolling to yourself.
Tell me with a straight face that Schumer isn't celebrating this.
centrists celebrated harris getting dick cheney's endorsement, and were openly angry at gwb for failing to endorse harris.
Schumer is enabling MAGA. I'm not interested in quibbling about whether it quite amounts to collaborating.
"blue maga" is not a thing, LOL. Also, I don't know when I was celebrating Cheney or Bush being on anyone's side...
They're not going to want to hear it. For them, wanting your country to not fall apart equals being okay with genocide. It doesn't matter that everything is much, much worse. There is even a comment saying this is our punishment for funding genocide. Families that are being broken apart, rights stripped away, growing tensions with literally everyone, and a fucking DOGE department, that's our punishment for trying to not make things not as terrible as they could be.
I'm so fucking sick of them going "Oh, so you don't care. You're okay with bombing people." No, no we are not. We are not over here giggling happily at the horror going on. I didn't see anyone in the town halls or protest going, "now, we're okay with genocide, but only if we have rights." Just because we are also worried about our country does not automatically mean that we don't care anyone else.
The people in my country are also important. I want them to have Healthcare and food and basic rights. Trying to make the best choice out of two shitty choices is not us going "well, genocide is a okay." Over, and over, and over we were told there's no difference between who was elected. BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. This is the fucking difference. I don't want to focus on fucking Musk and Trump. I don't even see people speak about the genocide as much anymore because we're drowning in Trump/Musk news. The protests in my area have shifted because we can't protest if we don't even have the right to do so. We can't vote against anything if we CAN'T FUCKING VOTE.
I wish it was as simple as just not voting, or at the very least not having a two party system, but we did not have that option last election. It was either Harris or Trump. Did I fucking want Harris? NO! Did I believe she would be, even if by a small amount, easier to deal with than Trump, yes. Yes I fucking did. But I fuck me I guess for caring about Gaza and my countrymen.
I'm the punishment guy. First of all you ignored the latter half of my comment, where I said that this contradiction between civil rights at home and genocide abroad was only going to result in Trump. You can want things to happen all you want, but it was never going to work in reality. Second, yes, exactly. It's your punishment for eliminating the option where you oppose genocide out of hand when you had a whole year to change course. I can barely accept saying "it's too late to change things now so vote blue" in October, but "hold your nose and vote for her" in August, or—even worse—"Biden can't step down now" in February? Calling anri-genocde critics of the party MAGA or Russian trolls? Fucking unforgivable. I have seen the way Arabs opposing the genocide of their friends and family were talked about here, and the "leopards ate my face" comments on every article about the death of a Palestinian. Not every American is directly responsible, don't get me wrong, but with a crime as big as the merciless murder of at least a quarter million people almost every American is one way or another within the radius of moral culpability.
Tl;DR: Didn't want MAGA Hitler? Then you should've opposed the damn genocide.
You're right, I didn't read all of your comment. I skimmed it at best (which is why I didn't reply directly). The choice was not "civil rights at home" and "genocide abroad." it was "both suck with Gaza, but one is a blood thirsty dumbass, and the other is your run of the mill bullshit politician." i don't know who is spreading this narrative that everyone who voted was voting for genocide or voting with the idea of trade off. I have not met anyone (personally) who was like," man, I hate Harris' stance on Gaza, but as long as she gives me rights, I don't care." It was Nazi VS Shitty Politician. I don't know why the concept of not wanting to have a Nazi in charge is akin to saying "yes, please bomb Gaza. I'm totally okay with it." I wasn't okay with it when Biden did it, I wasn't okay when Harris said she supported Biden's actions, and I'm not okay with it now that Trump is making Ai videos of condos built on graves. I did oppose genocide and I still do.
Also, what option did I eliminate? You're acting like election day was the only time people tried anything. In November, yes, it was too late. We didn't rally behind a third candidate, we didn't even get to vote for Harris as our candidate. There were protests, but, by November, it wasn't enough. We failed. And as much as I would have wanted to say "fuck this" I knew that it wasn't going to make literally anything any better by not voting, but would make a shit ton worse because one candidate can do and appears to be doing more damage to the other.
TL;DR: I have and still do oppose genocide and I do not believe that on election night there was a realistic chance that we could get a candidate in office that aligned with everything I would have wanted, but there was a candidate that would have made the struggle a tiny bit easier. I do not believe that Americans that voted for Harris (or honestly didn't vote all all, regardless of my opinion) were doing it with the idea that Gaza was a worthy scarfice.
No I'm not; quite the opposite in fact. Some people did try something, but they were met with either inaction, ridicule or straight up derision. Again, my problem isn't with the people who said "it's too late" in October; I can sympathize with that view. My problem is for the people who kept saying some combination of "it's too late we can't do anything" and "lalala I can't hear you" when it was, in fact, not too late. Opposition to the Gaza genocide is almost as old as the genocide itself, and the Uncommitted/Listen to Michigan Movement got going before the Michigan primary in February. My problem with Americans is that, faced with this golden opportunity to catch the Democrats by the balls and demand real change, the best they could do was "hold your nose and vote for her". An anti-fascist movement that doesn't have it in it to effectively object to genocide isn't an anti-fascist movement; it's an anti-fascism-if-it-affects-me movement. For scale, the Spanish planned an honest to goodness general strike when their government didn't go as far as they wanted in its opposition to Israel.
You are literally arguing for collective punishment. You realize that, right?
Agreed. With donvict and his zero-empathy crew, the terror and misery are going to be brought here and waged against much of the country, in addition to in Gaza. In addition to him being even worse on Gaza.
The galaxy-brained so-called "leftists" (I question how many actually are) would have us believe that allowing donvict into office is just fine, and them abstaining from voting or throwing a vote away on a joke of a third party even makes them righteous.
Who did the firebombing? The US? I understand the US's complicity in Israeli crimes against humanity, but there's still a difference in degree of culpability.
I'm sorry, did you see a whole lot of Democratic voters that wanted that to happen? I don't know one Democratic voter that wants any part of it, including, yes, selling Israel weapons.
Again, the only real choices we had were, Biden, then Kamala. Or donvict. Biden and Kamala had the same position on Israel that DC has held for years. No, we don't love that.
This, vs. donvict who is going to be even worse, especially on doing things to throw red meat to the crazy end-times xtians that only "support" Jews in Israel because of silly stories they've made up...and he is obviously going to be worse both domestically and abroad on many things that don't involve Gaza, as well.
How’d the resolution to withhold arms sales to Israel go today huh? All those democrats showing they don’t want to sell Israel more weapons, Trump has no power over their vote but they still choose to support Zionism