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And if you'd decide to leave, where would you go?

Context for why I'm asking: I'm trans and currently live in Minnesota, I moved here from Florida so I have some idea of how miserable big moves can be. I can get EU citizenship which makes me very lucky, but... Do I sit here and hope Minnesota can protect me from 🥭 or do I try to build a life somewhere else, again?

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[-] aramis87@fedia.io 33 points 1 year ago

I can get EU citizenship which makes me very lucky

You said "can get", implying you haven't done so yet. My advice? Get the EU citizenship. Simply getting EU citizenship doesn't commit you to actually moving overseas.

That said, things aren't that bad right now, but it'll take time to process the paperwork. By the time things get bad enough to force you, you may not have the time to wait for your application to be processed. Plus, depending on the number of refugees, they may change the rules on who qualifies.

Worst thing that happens is that you spend some time, effort and money and you get some peace of mind, which isn't a terrible thing at all.

[-] Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 month ago

Sorry about the thread necromancy, but I'm really curious. About a year ago you said "things aren’t that bad right now". Well, a lot has changed since then. Any updates? Do you think moving would be advisable now? According to the news I see frequently, ICE is out of control, due process is out the window, the constitution matters less and less each day and so on. Makes me wonder how Americans see that.

[-] aramis87@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago

That's a good question. I think it depends on who and what you are, what your resources are, how old you are and how risk-adverse you are.

OP is trans, so is likely to be directly targeted at some point. They're also in Wisconsin, which is resisting fascism and they're also near the Canadian border if they want to make a run for it. But you don't want to wait until thugs are breaking down your door to leave.

If I was OP, I'd have applied for EU citizenship, and then an EU passport. I'd be looking into what countries I could emigrate to, what skills I had or could acquire, and what resources I would need. Like, you can move to any country in the EU, but to become a permanent resident, you need to prove you won't be a burden to them. Sometimes you can do that by buying property or a golden visa, sometimes you can just show proof of income/resources, sometimes you can have a desired career.

Like, nurses are almost always in demand, so if I was looking to emigrate, I'd see if I could pick up a nursing degree. Because even if you don't qualify for as a citizen, many places are willing to allow nurses live and practice in their countries.

If you're on the younger side, it's easier to move overseas, easier to adjust, and you have a longer period where you'd be living under oppressive rule / a longer period to re-establish yourself and live a happy life, so moving makes more sense. If you're older and moving is more disruptive, I can see people being more hesitant.

Sometimes, even if you have a passport or the resources, there may be some other reason you choose not to leave - family, friends, responsibilities.

For people who are leaving now, I certainly don't blame them. For people who are making contingency arrangements - documentation, citizenship, savings, career path, whatever - I think that's certainly a prudent thing to be doing.

There are also people who have decided to stay: some because they refuse to give in it give up, some because they may have options but they also have responsibilities, some because they don't have options other than crossing a border and finding someplace to take them in. I feel for this last category, because that's especially hard to judge: it needs to be "late enough" that more places are willing to take refugees, but not so late that countries are strained: if even 1% of the population flees, that's 3.5 million people looking for a new home, and no place can handle that. It'll be another diaspora - but that also means resettlement will be harder for each individual.

The people who are leaving or planning to, the people who have intentionally chosen to stay - they've made their decisions for their own reasons, and I respect that. The people who would like to leave and have no path other than literally running away - I feel for them, and I wish they had better options. I don't think it's too late, but I also don't think their options will get any better from here unless they're taking positive steps - that nursing degree, for example.

The people who are actively cheering for what's happening - well, if I had The Snap, I think the world would be a better place - though I'm sure they think the exact same thing.

All that said, though: we're all fucked in the end. Fascism may be coming to the States, but climate change is coming for all of us: drought, famine, pestilence and war are headed our way, and a bunch of rich people would rather see the planet burn than address actual problems and lose a tiny bit of their paper-based wealth.

[-] Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 month ago

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Living under a totalitarian regime can get incredibly difficult, and Europe has many scars like that. One such example was Nicolae Ceaușescu. He said he would fix the economy of Romania, but his methods involved people suffering from famine and freezing cold homes. You never know how dictators decide to torture their people.

this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025
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