689
Patience is a virtue
(slrpnk.net)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2025
689 points (100.0% liked)
Memes
51765 readers
697 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
Liberals are "the right" and they sure as hell don't believe 75% of the same things as leftists. Leftists in the west also don't really have the power to keep liberals out of power, hence why liberals have consistently been the only ones in power for decades. Liberals on the other hand, absolutely do have the power to keep leftists out, and they will go as far as allying with fascists to murder leftists in their beds.
Liberalism is literally and historically where the left begins. The right is authoritarianism and the left is liberalism to anarchism. Liberals are not leftists but it is a signof a distinct lack of education in political philosophy to claim liberalism as a right wing ideology.
Liberalism is the ideological basis of Capitalism. When Capitalism was a progressive force, ie during the French Revolution, it was considered left wing. Now that Capitalism has become entrenched and turned to Imperialism, the progressive side is undeniably Socialism, while liberalism entrenches the status quo.
Simply saying that liberalism at one point was progressive does not mean history has not had several centuries of shifts and developments since then.
You're being incredibly euro-centric with your claims here.
How so?
Your notion of where the modern divide lies is 100% European and won’t hold true when you consider all nations.
Liberalism is european in origin, as Capitalism first truly took hold there. It isn't the "modern divide" but the notion of Liberalism as a progressive motion or regressive motion.
Capitalism was first instituted by the first Liberal nation- the USA. Europe was mostly mercantilist
No, the mode of production creates the ideology, not the opposite.
And Europe was mired in mercantilist systems. The government gave business permission to exist in many cases.
America was the first to institute capitalism, Europeans cane up with the philosophy but America put it into practice.
Mercantilism is not distinct from Capitalism, but a form of it.
Liberalism didn't exist for most of history, so trying to invoke "history" to argue that liberalism has some kind of timeless and eternal claim to being on the left is unconvincing. Yes, liberalism was the left in the eighteenth century, but we're in the twenty first century.
The division of political ideologies into left and right derives from the French Parliament which had the monarchists on the right and the liberals on the left.
Every reference to right and left stems from this so yes in fact Liberalism has always been where the left starts even if liberals are nit leftists because the political left is anti-authoritarian.
The binary has not changed and I promise you any claim ypu make to the contrary is going to be mired in euro-centric beliefs.
The names yes, but the basic conflict is much older, Europe itself had the Guelph-Ghibelline conflict.
Perhaps it us my American education in geography, but isn't France still part of Europe?
The Gelph-Ghibelline conflict was about secular monarchism vs religious authority. Im not sure I see the point you're making.
It is, it's the UK that left (the EU, not the continent).
That the conflict between feudal lords (French aristocrats / Ghibellines) and urban merchants (Guelph burghers / French Girondists) is much older than the French Revolution. The pope and emperor were the figureheads, but the lords and merchants were the power blocs.