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this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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interestingasfuck
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interestingasfuck
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What difference does that make now? Why do you think they actually care what their supporters want?
I don’t. But it means that these people may not be so far from the same ideal as us. Which matters in convincing people for a revolution, and elections later on (if they still will be free and fair after Trump).
In fact, polling showed, a substantial number of people in 2016 and 2020 went from Bernie voting in primaries to voting Trump. The people want someone who isn’t scared to criticise neoliberal elitism.
Yes, the famously free and fair elections under dictatorships.
Well Trump was president in 2016 and we had a free election in 2020. But even if 2028 is not free, the current situation is that the vast majority of the country is boiling in anti-elite sentiment, this could lead to a revolution.
I’m sorry if I’m not conforming with you pessimistic or what you might call “realist” views. But I’m not going to give up. I’m not going to let facism win. We can only achieve a better future if we start imagining it and believing in it. If Facism wins I get murdered. I’m doing everything to not let that happen.
Trump didn't have all three branches of government on his side. He also didn't literally say he was going to be a dictator. It's not pessimism, it is realism.
Do you think he was just joking when he said he was going to be a dictator?
It’s not pessism to admit Trump is a wannabe dictator.
It’s pessimism to sit there complaining about it without imagining paths and working towards a better alternative.
I’m not one of these “anti-electoralism” people. I vote, and I think voting maters. But a lot more matters than just voting.
You can’t just say “oh well we did our best” after you lose the electionand let facism happen. You gotta fight, you gotta advocate, you gotta defend those who need it.
He's not a "wannabe dictator." He made it very clear what he is going to be and he controls all three branches of government. On top of that, they've given him permission to do anything as an "official presidential act" (i.e. declare himself dictator) and it would be up to congress, who are on his side, to say he can't.
Fighting fascism doesn't mean living in a pipe dream world where It Can't Happen Here.
You’re arguing against someone who isn’t me.
Whatever Trump is is irrelevant to my point. My point is its pessimistic and problematic to surrender to facism happening without putting up a fight.
I’m basically saying: We gotta use all means necessary to fight facism.
And to me it seems you end up replying: But Trump is a dictator.
When did I say anything about surrendering or not fighting?
People sure like putting words in my mouth.
I didn’t say you did. But it’s been a confusing conversation because it feels like I make a point in every message, and then you disagree with a minor detail of my point, instead of having a conversation about the big picture.
To me it feels like we aren’t talking to each other really.
I’m basically saying: We gotta use all means necessary to fight facism.
And to me it seems you end up replying: But Trump is a dictator.
Which confuses me because not very relevant to my point.
I never said otherwise.
I kept replying to your whole thing about how that was just pessimism.
Your point seemed to be that the way to solve the fascism problem was targeted assassinations of CEOs.
It's because you equivocate and dance around without saying what you mean.
Just say you think violence isn't justified and won't get the results you want. People will disagree but at least your stance will be clear.
Why do you want me to lie?
Jesus Christ man, do you even have a point or are you just spinning your own tires here? Lol that entire above exchange was painful to read
My point is that targeted assassinations will only make things work. I'm not sure why you didn't get that.
I dunno, we've had one, and I'm sleepin' like a baby. Few more won't bother me at all... Or all of them.
It will when your insurance premiums go up because they're all hiring massive security teams.
Yeah, I'm sure ripping people off more will put less of a target on them.
This is long overdue.
Do you think they'll suddenly start putting people over profits now? When they legally can't?
How do you think capitalism works exactly? Corporations do the compassionate thing when you threaten their leaders? Can you give an example?
Nah squid, I know better than try and discuss anything with you, mate. Too much time. Have a good one.
And yet you've been discussing this with me for hours, so that sounds like a lie.
Mmmm I sent two short messages, but sure. I'll spell it out.
I stated my opinion. Changing your mind on this or defending my viewpoint is just not that important to me.
I'm confident I could discuss and debate it, I know the facts and where my stance lies. I just don't want to explain it to you. It would be a truly pointless endeavor. I have responsibilities in my life. I don't want to be the kind of person that argues online for a living. I can't be.
I know it's difficult but I hope you can understand.
I see you in every thread, clearly it would benefit neither of us if I engaged you. I simply cannot match your time commitment to this online debate club.
The information on this subject is widely available, and we are now working in the realm of hypothetical. No need to waste any more time for either of us. We are approaching "my dad can beat up your dad - an essay". I just don't care anymore.
For the sake of your own ego, I allow you to chalk this up in the "win" category. I think it's fair. You are the superior lemmy user.
What did I win? You hating me? That was likely the case the first time you read anything I posted. That's generally how people feel upon meeting me in my experience.
I am not superior to anyone. Certainly not you.
I've stated publicly many, many times that I am one of the worst people on the planet and deserving of all the hate I get.
What I am not, however, is someone with a massive ego who thinks he is better than anyone else.
There are lots and lots of real, legitimate reasons to hate on me so I have no idea why people like you make up new ones.
It doesn't matter that much to me either way as I've learned to limit my egagement with you but if you want people to stop putting words in your mouth you have to speak clearly
I spoke very clearly: targeted assassinations will not fix the capitalist healthcare system. It will make things worse.