72
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
72 points (100.0% liked)
Asklemmy
43984 readers
485 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
It is a whole thread, not just my analysis. I also put thought into it, so I won't recite every point I carefully phrase there to a rando centrist, so live with it.
Directly responding to your very argument though, are you going to engage with these responses or what?
Stewart took on an Alabama MAGA moron legislator on trans youth heatlhcare bans. We are probably not talking about the same segment. The part you are talking about is probably the one I am criticizing in the thread you refused to read because it was written by me, so why should we bother with your tired argument? This borders on sea-lioning since a couple iterations ago, and I think if this is the case it is actionable.
But you talked about pitching to the progressive base, not the opposite side. MAGA fanatics are cult-minded morons that dismiss everything that diverts from their narrative. There is no comparison to centrist and center-left democrats base, who operate under totally different rules than a fucking Nazi cult.
Your example about the Ad is addressed to a cult.
You said:
Just searching around Lemmy you can find fine rebuttals to this bullshit. You make it sound like it is unthinkable to rebut these hateful tropes. This is more or less what Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro tout: That their common sense is unrebuttable. It is not.
She could have rebutted, and take them on. Same goes for Rachel Levin. They chickened out of it. Furthermore, the mainstream progressive media not only omitted to address misconceptions and dangerous cliches, but they chimed in with thinly veiled TERFism, and this is because the interests behind the Democrats are in part transphobic as well.
This also responds to these words of yours:
I keep saying they abstained from matching the excessive anti-trans propaganda. What is your point?
I said that Oliver and Stewart, the Scientific American, the APA, and several other bodies have addressed trans issues to the progressive base, and no-one in the left thought they were unpalatable until now. The progressive media would have protected against this, that is more than a decade in the happening, but they did not.
Shit man, this is such a complex study that I can easily point out that 60% of Democrats think that trans representation has not even gone far enough.
Above all, I don't think that trans issues are edgy and unpopular at all. Until a couple years ago it was a strictly medical thing, with a very niche activism surrounding it, mostly on legal representation and medical gatekeeping issues.
It was the fascists who spent millions to demagogue on that point for many years, and I think people should be educated on trans issues as they should a decade ago.
At this point people who take anti-trans propaganda seriously are lost causes to me, and this includes people who fall for an ad like the one you posted. There is no point to cater to them from a pro-trans perspective, it is like trying to appeal to a 1936 German crowd applauding Hitler about the human rights of Jews at this point.
The view you defend here is essentially a compromise to concurrent Nazi discourse, which as I said is unacceptable, and I don't care about Democrats ratings. I rather see that the extreme left everywhere dials up the pro-trans issues and organize defense and survival programs.
Again I have cited arguments against the supposedly self-evident low hanging fruit you evangelize here.
I think that I have responded to all your concerns here or elsewhere in my Lemmy posts and comments, and I won't respond further. You probably come from a naive self-designated center-left perspective, but the discourse of this post borders too closely to sealioning and concern trolling, that I will not waste more of my time on.
I mean, your comic made the same basic point that Oliver did. Which I already responded to. In depth.
You could, uhhh, look back at the Pew research I already shared.
I love your argument is simultaneously "we can win them over with enough messaging! The DNC didn't put enough into trans messaging to overcome propaganda! Also, those people we can win over are lost causes!" Pick a lane!
I guess that's the difference. I've met some of the people who will be affected by climate change and seen the communities that will be destroyed. They aren't abstract. It's very easy to figure winning these elections doesn't matter when you know damn well it really doesn't affect you. I just find that view reprehensible as I think it's throwing the most vulnerable people under the bus so you can feel good about being on the right side.
Life in large, pluralistic society is full of uncomfortable compromises. Most moral progress is made because enough people with old Conservative views have died and the median voter is ready to move forward, not because we screamed at people. (Though, frustratingly, the Left seems to have either lost the messaging game or taken such silly positions that we are no longer dominating the youth vote so we may have, through our evangelizing, set progress back much farther than needs be. How fucking annoying are we such that people would prefer trump to us?)
Are you sure you know what those terms mean? This seems like when you had no idea what Utilitarianism was.
Sea lioning doesn't just refer to disagreeing with someone, here's the original sea lion comic:
https://wondermark.com/c/1062/
I'm hard pressed to see how, relatively politely, responding to the comments you keep leaving on my original response to someone else's question fits that at all.
As I hope you're true to your word and done with this, have a good weekend.