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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 95 points 17 hours ago

Crazy how quickly we've gone from "Nuclear is a dead technology, it can't work and its simply too expensive to build more of. Y'all have to use fossil fuels instead" to "We're building nuclear plants as quickly as our contractors can draft them, but only for doing experiments in high end algorithmic brute-forcing".

Would be nice if some of that dirt-cheap, low-emission, industrial capacity electricity was available for the rest of us.

[-] RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 5 hours ago

Well, once the AI hype calms down and people realize the current approach won't lead to actual intelligence or "The Singularity", there may be quite some nuclear plants left over. That or they will be used to mine shitcoins.

[-] _stranger_@lemmy.world 13 points 10 hours ago
  1. Tax them enough that they don't have the cash to just up and build their own personal-use nuclear powered, nation spanning infrastructure.

  2. Use those taxes to build a nation spanning nuclear infrastructure that everyone can use.

[-] JamesTBagg@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

Eh, I would say investment into R&D should be encouraged and maybe allow tax write offs. Even of the end goal is a private power source. Once that R&D turns into workable, operable, sellable products, then tax the fuck out of them. Perhaps disallow making things that can be a boon to public infrastructure from being deem proprietary, so that it can be more easily adapted to public use.
I dunno, I'm typing from my couch after a few beers.

[-] Silentiea 2 points 7 hours ago

I've got so many ads so far for how adding new taxes is bad even if it pays for good things, and all of the issues they are arguing about aren't even adding any taxes. Actually adding taxes seems like a great way to make political enemies, even though it's often the best tool there is for a thing.

[-] Zementid@feddit.nl 46 points 17 hours ago

Fun Times! Because everyone pays for the waste and when something goes wrong. Privatizing Profits while Socializing Losses. The core motor of capitalism.

[-] ahal@lemmy.ca 11 points 17 hours ago

Everyone pays for not using nuclear too, a thousand fold more so.

[-] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 6 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

It's almost like the brand spanking new tech to make small nuclear reactors are extremely cost prohibitive and risky, and to lower the cost someone needs to spend money to increase supply.

[-] towerful@programming.dev 2 points 12 hours ago

If only that was the government that invested in the R&D and tech to make it happen.
Gaining funds from taxes (meaningful taxes), and investing that money in making their country better.

Hopefully this decision is because carbon taxes that will make consumer products representative of the actual cost of the item (not the exploitative cost). >

No no, let the free market decide.
Fucking AI threatening to replace basic jobs (when it's more suited to replace the C-Suite) gobling up energy and money, too-big-to-fail bailouts and loophole tax rules bullshit.

So yeh, someone needs to spend the money and that should be the government.
Because they should realise that carbon fuel sources are a death sentence.

[-] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

I'm glad you don't make the decisions because I don't want my taxes, that I work hard for and pay money into, to be spent by the government on highly-likely dogshit experimental brand new nuke tech that may eventually cost more money later on to maintain, and I prefer they spend it renovating existing infrastructure or building tried/true legacy nuke plant designs.

[-] towerful@programming.dev 1 points 11 hours ago

Your taxes already go towards this.
That's how governments leverage capitalism to placate the people. Grants for green energy initiatives.
Private companies get free money for taking some amount of risk because they are likely to profit massively from it.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/google-agrees-to-multi-reactor-power-deal-with-nuclear-startup-kairos
Kairos is getting free money (grants & tax breaks) and profits from this. Google is extremely likely (can't find a source) to be getting free money for this

Companies EXIST to extract profit.
Of one of the worlds most successful companies is doing this, it's because "line goes up".

I'd prefer this happend so that "humans survive".
But "humans don't die faster" is fine for now.

(I guess "humans" means "poor humans". As in anyone that doesn't outright own 2 homes.)

[-] Silentiea 4 points 7 hours ago

The day I lost all respect for my father was when he told me in all seriousness that the fundamental purpose of capitalism was to make people happy.

[-] hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 14 hours ago

To be fair here, no one's certain this will be cost-effective either. The new techs make it worth trying though.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

no one’s certain this will be cost-effective either

One of the great sins of nuclear energy programs implemented during the 50s, 60s, and 70s was that it was too cost effective. Very difficult to turn a profit on electricity when you're practically giving it away. Nuclear energy functions great as a kind-of loss-leader, a spur to your economy in the form of ultra-low-cost utilities that can incentivize high-energy consumption activities (like steel manufacturing and bulk shipping and commercial grade city-wide climate control). But its miserable as a profit center, because you can't easily regulate the rate of power generation to gouge the market during periods of relatively high demand. Nuclear has enormous up-front costs and a long payoff window. It can take over a decade to break even on operation, assuming you're operating at market rates.

By contrast, natural gas generators are perfect for profit-maximzing. Turning the electric generation on or off is not much more difficult than operating a gas stove. You can form a cartel with your friends, then wait for electric price-demand to peak, and command thousands of dollars a MWh to fill the sudden acute need for electricity. Natural gas plants can pay for themselves in a matter of months, under ideal conditions.

So I wouldn't say the problem is that we don't know their cost-efficiency. I'd say the problem is that we do know. And for consumer electricity, nuclear doesn't make investment sense. But for internally consumed electricity on the scale of industrial data centers, it is exactly what a profit-motivated power consumer wants.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago

Plus time. My perspective was that building a new nuclear power industry and any significant number of reactors would take too long: we need to have fixed climate change in less time.

So seven “small” reactors over the next eleven years ….. faster than I expected but still takes decades to make a noticeable difference.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago

So seven “small” reactors over the next eleven years ……

Is more than we've built in the last 40. And, assuming energy demands continue to accelerate, I doubt they'll be the last seven reactors these companies construct.

[-] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago

I don’t think they’re even building many. The article uses the word “adopt” because they’re kinda reviving old power plants. Three Mile Island being one of them.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

I don’t think they’re even building many.

You might want to read the article.

this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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