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submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world to c/micromobility@lemmy.world

EDIT: Don't bother reporting people criticizing others for not wearing a helmet. It's not victim blaming, just like criticizing someone for not wearing a seatbelt isn't victim blaming.

Wear your helmets people: Of course nobody deserves to get hit by a car but the reality is people are getting hit by cars.

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[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 32 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Study limitations include lack of detailed clinical information with each report.

The reporting of ebike news articles should always be treated with a healthy grain of salt, for there is a lot of implicit bias that slips in. Even this fairly tame headline by NPR is falling into the trap, teetering on the suggestion that helmets are the sole preventative measure for avoiding head injuries.

The study -- not very long to read; mostly has tables of data -- details the rate of injuries observed in emergency rooms between 2017 and 2022, showing some monumental increases in that time period, split out by age, sex, hospital type, injury type, and helmet use.

What's not here -- as the study admits -- is the nature of the collision, which is rather important because grievous head injuries involve an impact with someone or something else. There is a substantial difference in how public policy would address head injuries involving: 1) solo bicyclist rider error, 2) stationary motor vehicles, 3) moving motor vehicles, 4) pedestrians, 5) collision with other bicyclists, or 6) stationary object collisions.

At best, this study tells us that bicycle collisions are up, but not the flip side: are pedestrian collisions up? Motor vehicle collisions up? More collisions with stationary objects? We simply don't know.

And in the absence of data collection to even attempt to answer that question, the wrong conclusion is often drawn: that ebikes are inherently more dangerous, which draws further legislative action by confused towns and cities, which eventually prove futile because they're not following any data.

There is reason to believe that these increasing rates of collisions are due in part to popularity of ebikes -- as the NPR as article mentions -- but in larger part by motor vehicles.

A Google Search for "ebike collision causes" sadly turns up mostly ads for lawyers, but I did find this 2017 study of Corvallis, OR data on all bicyclist collisions. Table 2 shows that the top cause is "motorist fails to yield while turning" at 42%. This study notes that their data did not identify ebike vs acoustic bike, but it's hard to see how that would make a difference if it's an error by the motor vehicle driver. The next three causes are faults of the driver as well.

Going down that table, the non-zero collisions attributable to bicyclist behavior are: running red lights, going the wrong way, not yielding while turning, no lights, darting into the road, lane changes, and intoxication. None of those, except maybe that an ebike can dart into the road quicker, are substantially amplified by an ebike compared to an acoustic bike.

IMO, the trend of increasing ebike head injuries is from: 1) motor vehicle collisions where the auto driver is at fault, and 2) insufficient infrastructure to separate bicyclists from pedestrians. Proper infra means bikes and pedestrians are protected from cars, and pedestrian and bike flows are separated.

[-] RedWeasel@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Additionally with ebikes being so popular, more time on bikes with more people on bikes equals an increase in opportunities for accidents. Not to mention increase range for many people therefore more likely to find people bicycling where they were less likely to be before.

[-] ineffable@sh.itjust.works 7 points 8 months ago

While I love the use of acoustic to describe non-powered bicycles, does no-one but me just call them pushbikes?

[-] Soggy@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Not in the US wr don't. Pushbike is weird to me anyway, it sounds like it should be used for a bike without pedals. And also we already have a word for a non-powered bicycle. It's bicycle.

[-] ineffable@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Except people will bend over backwards to put a word in front of bicycle to denote that it is not electric

lemmy.ca/post/11038826

[-] krush_groove@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

I never heard the term pushbike until I moved to the UK.

[-] ineffable@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago

Crikey, you've discovered my Aussie identity

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Here in California, if you said pushbike, this is what many people might envision: a two-wheel craft with a floorboard like a scooter, and the handlebars and wheels of a bicycle, but with no gears or chains. To be ridden by pushing off the ground and gliding for a distance.

But pedalbike here would indeed refer to a bicycle, albeit maybe with a connotation of a child's bicycle.

[-] bluGill@kbin.social 7 points 8 months ago

that is incorrect analisys. Ebikes are typically faster and that is a factor in head injuries. Bike helmets do little in car crashes, but they are very good when you fall.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

Speed does not -- in and of itself -- somehow create more collisions. What makes a collision is a difference of relative speed.

There is a substantial difference in how public policy would address head injuries involving: 1) solo bicyclist rider error, 2) stationary motor vehicles, 3) moving motor vehicles, 4) pedestrians, 5) collision with other bicyclists, or 6) stationary object collisions.

From my list earlier, absolute speed would tend to exacerbate scenarios 1, 2, 4, and 6. But would make little difference to scenario 3, and scenario 5 would depend on the speeds of other bicyclists. My analysis points out that if scenario 3 is what has been drastically increasing in the past decade -- which is corroborated by the Oregon study linked earlier -- then no, speed is pretty much irrelevant. Being struck by a motor vehicle driver making a turn is going to be bad, no matter what speed the bicycle, ebike, or motorcycle was going.

What I cannot show -- nor can anyone show otherwise -- is the prevalence of those scenarios in proportion to overall collisions. We simply have insufficient data, which should be a call to action for better information from collision investigations.

[-] bluGill@kbin.social 2 points 8 months ago

But again, just because helmets are not useful in one situation does not mean that they are worthless in all. They are very helpful in a subset of situations and should be worn for those situations.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

does not mean that they are worthless

Who was arguing that helmets are worthless? I don't see that thread.

[-] anothercatgirl 1 points 8 months ago

You might be missing practical experience of falling off a bike. Happened to me. Speed makes a difference in any situation where the bike falls over or the rider falls off the bike. why? because speed is a major source of kinetic energy when colliding with the ground (the other source is the difference in height). You listed 6 different possible causes for falling off a bike, and all of them result in more energetic falls if the bike is going fast.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

Are we concerned about an initial impact, the probable falling-off that occurs afterwards, or both? I personally care mostly about the reasons for initial impacts because without colliding with anything, falling off a bike becomes much less frequent and less severe.

Even the circumstance of falling off a bike without a collision with anything else is improved for everyone by good infrastructure: grass-lined paths, telephone poles placed far away, a buffer between oncoming bike path lanes, full separatiom from cars, etc... All those infrastructure changes benefit everyone, irrespective of whether a particular rider falls while wearing a helmet or not.

This fixation on helmets is a case of missing the forest for the trees.

[-] anothercatgirl 1 points 8 months ago

if you change the perspective like that, yeah, safer bike infrastructure is very important.

[-] Donk240978@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 8 months ago

Just wear the damn helmet. Done up properly too. Don't just place it on our head so the cops leave you alone.

It's nothing to do with your skill. It's to keep you head intact when some idiot knocks you off your bike. Right of way and who is to blame don't mean shit when you're airborne heading for the pavement. Doesn't matter who fucked up when your brains are mush. You won't care because you'll be dead if you're lucky or brain damaged if you're not.

I'd rather look like a retard than become one...

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 14 points 8 months ago

Wow, imagine not being able to make such a simple and obvious point without being a fucking ableist...

[-] Donk240978@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 8 months ago

You're right, last sentence wasn't required. No need to insult those who have been inconvenienced by the cards life has dealt them. But, I'm going to own my mistake and leave it up. No sneaky shameful edit from me. That was a cunty thing to say and I apologise that (not if) I offended you and all others I offended.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 12 points 8 months ago

I appreciate you taking the criticism on the chin, and your apology.

I will just point out though that it isn't about offence, it's about inclusion. I think giving this a read could be quite helpful. Also - framing disability as "inconvenienced by the cards life has dealt" isn't great (sure, being disabled can be inconvenient, but in many if not most cases it isn't our disabilities that are the reason why, but societies unwillingness to consider and include us, which ties back in with the previous point), here is a good link for that (I'm not trying to be an ass on a rant, just taking the opportunity to educate when I see the willingness to hear it).

[-] Donk240978@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 months ago

Certainly not seeing you as an ass on a rant. I do aim to do better. I said it because I didn't consider you. The concept of you. A person of disability in this world. This instance. This conversation. The problem with the online world is that you don't see the other person. You take impressions. "These people have similar opinions, they must be just like me..." And in my case, "just like me" is a mid 40s able bodied white man. I see words on a screen with similar views to mine, the mind doesn't default to "dark skinned woman with paraplegia" (I have no idea who you are, just an example of who isn't me). It doesn't see that. Instead similar views is similar person.

Was that a throwaway line of "dark humour " for the lowest common denominator? Probably. But it doesn't matter because it was still hurtful.

I know I would never have thrown it out in front of my coworker Jake. The man has cerebral palsy, but we're both employed to unload that truck. He is my equal.

Why does what I think or say even have to be thought about? Probably because I was raised in a home of "different is wrong" and stereotyping. Who I became as a young man and who I want to become as I get older are 2 different things that take effort.

Thankyou for helping me with my path.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No one knows everything, and we should all hope and aim to learn new things every day, and unlearn the harmful socialisation we've had enforced on us, both are constant works in progress.

Having said that.. 😂

The problem with the online world is that you don’t see the other person.

The issue isn't that we're online, not all disability is visible, and you really have no way of knowing if someone standing right in front of you is disabled. Your assumption that everyone is like you is because the world generally cater to and centres people like you, so those that aren't kind of fall off at the periphery of your view (this is why representation is important), but the fact that you are able to recognise that puts you ahead of the curve.

I know I would never have thrown it out in front of my co-worker Jake. The man has cerebral palsy, but we’re both employed to unload that truck. He is my equal.

Jake shouldn't have to be there, not only for the reason I mentioned above (you may very well have other disabled co workers, whose disability you can't see), but also because not having someone directly impacted hear it doesn't mean the ableism doesn't still have an impact, in normalising it.

Also - Jake is your equal not because he does the same job, but because he is Jake, and would be your equal even if he wasn't able to work.

I'm going to do a little info dump here, I don't expect that you'll read this all at once (or even at all), but I think it's good information that is worth sharing to help further understanding, so it's there for anyone who wants to learn more:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/11/ableist-language-matters/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis - I think this idea frames a lot of peoples' thinking about disability

https://www.yorku.ca/edu/unleading/ableism (their entire series on Systems of Oppression is worth a look)

https://disabledfeminists.com/category/ableist-word-profile/ - worth reading the entire series, the entries are a little lengthy, but the whole archive is only 2 pages

https://thestrand.ca/capitalism-ableism-and-the-glamorization-of-productivity/

https://dailyfreepress.com/2020/11/19/mind-your-business-ableism-is-rooted-in-capitalism/

https://leavingevidence.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/changing-the-framework-disability-justice/

[-] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 18 points 8 months ago

I'm just gonna say it. If you are a full grown adult and ride a bicycle without a helmet, you're pretty stupid. I had a 35 year old girlfriend who didn't wear her helmet because she thought it looked stupid. My sisters boyfriend sometimes goes on bike rides with his kids and refuses to wear a helmet. My sister and him argue a lot about it, and now she's got him so far that he takes a helmet with him, but still doesn't wear it. I see people with children in their child seats who wear a helmet, but the parent does not. What the fuck is the logic here? When you fall you crack your head open and while you are in a puddle of blood, your 4 year old is gonne deal with it?

[-] Wahots@pawb.social 3 points 8 months ago

One of our competitors lost their boss after he hit his head really hard in an escooter accident. Permanent vegetable now. Wasn't wearing a helmet. Shook people pretty hard at my company as many used to hang out with him.

Wear a helmet.

[-] birdcannon@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

People who don’t wear helmets are cowards. What are they so afraid of? Really gonna risk permanent brain damage on the off chance some other loser doesn’t think safety is fashionable?

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 11 points 8 months ago

Really gonna risk permanent brain damage on the off chance some other loser doesn’t think safety is fashionable?

yup. Same reason people give for not wearing anything but black while night riding.

[-] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Yea it's definitely that they're afraid of how it looks rather than not liking the feeling of something that's typically unbreathable covering the part of their body that tends to sweat and release the most heat while doing a moderate physical activity. Nope, definitely just the looks.

[-] spez_@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

I won't be attending your funeral

[-] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

My dude, I wear helmets because I like my brain in my head. I'm not going to pretend they're comfortable though. Helmets are hot and feel gross when you're sweating. Thinking people choose to not wear them as a fashion choice is like saying people avoid the doctor because they don't like the taste of tongue depressors. It's just a stupid take that entirely fails to factor in reality.

[-] birdcannon@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Sounds a like “I can’t breathe” during a certain period of time

[-] UnPassive@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Just wanna point out that mountain biking, motorcycles, and ebikes are more dangerous than normal pedal cycling. Cars are also a huge factor in the safety of all 4 activities (though helmets don't help very much when you get ran over). But commuting on a pedal bike is actually only slightly more dangerous than walking. People don't often crash a bike without external factors when commuting.

So my point is, yeah, wear it, but don't worship it. Safety in each situation is nuanced and complicated. Helmet blaming or victim blaming can be an excuse to ignore larger variables like separated biking infrastructure, reasonable speed limits, and protected crosswalks that don't let cars share that time with the person crossing (in my city, right on red, and unprotected left - of parallel traffic to the crosswalk...).

I often get thanked for wearing a helmet and I always think "wish I didn't need to, but the cars in my city terrify me"

[-] guyrocket@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago

What do people think about helmet laws for ebikes?

[-] antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 months ago

We should even consider if a regular bicycle helmet is sufficient for 25-30 mph. Perhaps they need to require moped helmets. But yeah if they’re required for motorcycles, e-bikes make sense.

[-] Safipok@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago

While helmets will reduce accidents and you should wear one if you live in risky areas. Dutch's don't wear helmets and they have the lowest cycle accidents in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpVncWxyMJw

Morale: Safe Transport infrastructure>>>Personal Safety measures

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I am aware but their proper bicycle infrastructure and enforcement of the rules is very unique: Most places in the world are not like that. In America cyclists are killed by drivers and the dead cyclists get blamed, even when drivers do get in trouble, it's often a slap on the wrist. If you're a cop, you can mow down cyclists at 60+mph without facing any real consequences. Pretty far cry from a nice, safe Dutch city.

this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
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micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility

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