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Italian town in turmoil after far-right mayor bans Muslim prayers
(www.theguardian.com)
Everyone likes to think of Italy as this land of the cultured and sophisticated with all the art, food, and architecture. But you'll find a lot of Italians are as racist and ass backwards as a toothless Klan member in Mississippi.
Italy literally invented fascism.
Hitler used to jerk off to pictures of Mussolini while building his movement.
Mussolini invented fascism, not Italy . Lots of Italians fell for it and supported it, the rest of the population - the vast majority - had to endure it and were straight up forced to live by its rules through persecution, imprisonment, violence, oppression, physical torture, displacement and homicide. Google the crimes of the Camicie Nere. Millions of Italians were killed because they wouldn’t accept the dictatorship. Look up the Partigiani fighters, they are the true heroes of the anti-fascist fight. Google the Fosse Ardeatine Massacre as one of many examples. Americans fancy themselves the saviours but they stepped in very very late when all the hard work had been done already by the Partigiani. Italy is historically a socialist country, so to say “Italy invented fascism” is just wrong.
Was Mussolini part of the government when fascism was invented? Then yes. Italy invented fascism.
It's okay. It's history.
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As an Italian, I would say that's not the case, not "a lot of Italians are racist". I've had interactions with a few racist people of older generations, but I would say that they are the exception, thankfully.
Frankly, that's kind of hard to believe when your country has an openly fascist government
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You don't have votes the way you do without endemic racism. Football still has a massive problem too.
Would you say Italian football fans would be considered "a lot of Italians?"
Or Fratelli d'Italia party members and voters?
Sometimes I think racism is nutrients for a lot of italians because they can not and will not stop with it
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"Everyone likes to think of Italy as this land of the cultured and sophisticated..."
This is no big deal and it's kinda funny, but really it just sounds like you thought that, and then were shocked when you learned otherwise lol.
Because I honestly don't know anyone who believes that. While I'm sure there are people who do, it's not this massive common misconception that you're claiming.
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I have never once in my life thought of Italy as being sophisticated. I feel like they definitely use to be but havnt been in a long time.
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The decision to ban burkini is weird. You can't swim nude on Italy's beaches, but can't swim fully clothed either?
I can see how banning the Burkini in indoor pools makes sense from a hygienic perspective, but banning them on public beaches is just to take something enjoyable away from a specific group of people.
People pee in the pool. I doubt a Burkini is going to make the hygienic difference.
Hard agree. Pools are gross—anyone getting in one knows that and accepts it. I’ll take a lady in a burkini over an unattended child any day.
France is pretty strict on that. Apparently men can't wear trunk style swimming bottoms. I'm not sure how they handle the burkini vs rashguard issue. I know rashguards are very popular with a lot of east asians because they worry about skin cancer.
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I'm pretty sure that's against italian constitution. Freedom of religion is a fundamental freedom on EU level as well.
Municipalities in Italy have been pushing an anti-Muslim agenda since at least 9/11 as part of the right-wing identity politics agenda.
Mosques and cultural centers are seen as radicalization centers.
They know that any court would shoot down shit like this as unconstitutional, but Italian law is slow as molasses and their goal is signaling to xenophobes and racists.
That's nice, since when have fascists ever cared? I mean like in all of human history?
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Bigotry aside, that seems like a wildly unenforceable law: What are they going to do? Go house to house to make sure people aren't praying the wrong way?
I mean, bigotry and unenforceability aside, it's also pretty unambiguously illegal.
Italy is a signatory to the ECHR which creates an explicit right to privacy (Article 8) and freedom of religion (Article 9).
The Italian constitution itself also specifies a right to religious equality before the law (Article 8).
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How about ban all prayers?
How about we invest in properly educating children so we won't need to worry about religion anymore?
Religion is not necessarily a lack of education, perhaps there is a correlation where you live but it's quite insulting to suggest this is universal
It seems to be, on the planet I live on. It's literally trying to explain things with magic and imaginary creatures.
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hmmm.... no ? you understand that would hurt many people ?
Ok. Then removing state funding and subsidies of all religions.
That's reasonable and should be the default. No special treatment, but no special restrictions either. That's only fair.
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The amount of hate and ignorance ITT is staggering. Do better Lemmy, please
Lemmy has passed it's golden moment now that enough regular Redditors made if over.
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Why us there so much muslim hate in Europe, I just don’t get it
I think it just might have to do with the history of Islamic terror attacks..
Such as the London bombings and bridge attack, Charlie Hebdo attack and the more recent stabbings in France, the Madrid train bombings which killed 193 people, the November 2015 Paris attack in which 130 were murdered, the 2016 Atatürk Airport attack in Turkey which left 45 dead, the 2016 Brussels bombings, just to name a few...
I'm not suggesting that all or even most Islamic individuals are dangerous/terrorists. But there is a long, bloody history of Islamic extremism throughout Europe.
I'm also not suggesting this justifies these bans in Italy whatsoever. I share this because it's essential context to answer your question.
Muslim immigrants will have de facto faced as much (if not far more) hostility and prejudice before any of those events.
What changed is that by the late 20th century, it had become politically unacceptable for right-wing parties to be perceived to be preying on overt racism towards their countries' brown-skinned citizens. But the War on Terror at the start of the 21st century created a new organising framework for nativists, whereby they could incite hatred against exactly the same brown-skinned people as before, but claim they were targeting them for their religion and not their skin colour. At the heart of it is still the same prejudice towards those who are different, it's just that the aspect of difference they choose to focus on today is more politically acceptable than the one they used to focus on.
From the perspective of a brown-skinned Muslim immigrant, the ideological hoops the far-right jump through are likely irrelevant. These people were targeted by nativists before, and they get targeted by nativists now.
I don't disagree with you that it's the product of racism and discrimination. But the terror attacks also fuel that hate.
I can say the same thing about the consequences of my (US) country's actions in the 'war on terror.' We're the greatest contributing factor to the formation of ISIS. The casualties of our drone strikes alone (from Bush, Obama, and trump) were vastly civilian targets.
Whether it's politically/religiously motivated drone strikes on civilians, bombs in subways, or knife attacks, those actions spawn further fear, hate, intolerance, and extremism.
Even though Italy is enacting racist policies/systems, they are able to gather support for/'justify' their actions due largely to the terror attacks throughout Europe.
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a lot of islamic terror attacks in the past have made people bitter.
and i mean a lot of them
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We don’t have black people to discriminate against, so we make do with browns after discriminating against Jews fell out of fashion.
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Probably because there is a, perceived or cultivated, associations between Muslims and immigrants/people of color. And if you can't outright punish someone based on "race" you go after the closest thing.
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Isn't this unconstitutional?
It's in italy, not the US.
Because the US is the only country with a constitution, amirite fellas?
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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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