Philips said it would stop selling the devices in the U.S.
cool. So the rest of the world can get stuffed.
💰
It's weird they only stop selling them now, it's been at least a year in France we know it kills people. I believe there is also a trial.
Why would Phillips remove them in France but keep selling them in the usa ?
Edit: my bad, it's been 2 years we know it gives cancer.
Capitalism
Greed and lack of empathy, not capitalism.
But also they somehow thought they could get away with it in the usa when they declared themselves 2 years ago in France that the foam in their device gives cancer. I really can't understand the logic, usa is the country of trial and lawyers, they knew they would get sued at some point.
Greed and lack of empathy
That's what keeps capitalism humming along. It's why a few people own most of everything and the "lucky" Americans will be forced to work until they die. What point were you trying to make when you attempted to correct them by saying that's not capitalism?
Because capitalism basic isn’t greed and lack of empathy, I could choose to invest my capital into nearby companies employing homeless people for instance. That would be capitalism.
I know lemmy population is mostly very left politically but these kind of « good socialism against bad capitalism » are nonsense and borderline ridiculous. I’m seriously wondering if there is a mob of edgy teenager promoting their political vision on every thread because it always comes down to « uh bad capitalism » every time I look into comments.
You can't fix the problems caused by capitalism with capitalism. Those homeless people employed by that beautiful company in your made up example don't have a home because companies and the governments they write the laws for value profit over human life. Homelessness is overwhelmingly a mentally health issue which becomes an addiction issue, but here in the US all health care, much less mental health care, is a for-profit venture. And the open market that you seem to respect so much has made renting and home ownership unattainable for countless millions.
You sound like everyone else who believes everything they learned in econ 101, that capitalism rights itself because it's in people's best interests to do so. You're out of touch with the reality of so many peoples lives, and you only emphasized it with your fantasy about "good capitalism." You can blame all of Lemmy or all the "brainwashed" people who tell you how far your perception of reality is skewed, but I hope you can continue learning about what life is like for people who don't have your privilege or luck and are moved to reconsider your stance.
The thing is I’m not saying capitalism is good neither, it sure isn’t looking great in USA. I’m saying it is what people end up doing with it and not everything can be blamed on it.
We’ll just agree to disagree.
greed and lack of empathy are the hallmarks of capitalism
Well fuck me. I've been using one of these things for nearly a decade.
Be happy, you helped make some people at Phillip richer.
In all seriousness, Phillip itself admitted the foam in their device can make headache, give toxicity and cancer. I've not been able to read the official declaration, only news report but if I was you I would check that because when the company itself admit it can give cancer, you know it's bad.
More info is needed. Here ya go folks:
Philips recalled the following devices made between 2009 and April 26, 2021:
A-Series BiPAP A30
A-Series BiPAP A40 (ventilator)
A-Series BiPAP Hybrid A30
A-Series BiPAP V30 Auto (ventilator)
C-Series ASV (ventilator)
C-Series S/T and AVAPS
DreamStation
DreamStation ASV
DreamStation Go
DreamStation ST, AVAPS
Dorma 400
Dorma 500
E30
Garbin Plus, Aeris, LifeVent (ventilator)
OmniLab Advanced+
REMstar SE Auto
SystemOne ASV4
SystemOne (Q-Series)
Trilogy 100 (ventilator)
Trilogy 200 (ventilator)
This isnt even about the materials breaking down, every product breaks down eventually. But cars from 30 years ago have better critical air path separation than that.... how badly did they fuck up the engineering to even make it possible for housing components to get sucked into the intake?
Oh, it probably would have cost an additional $0.45 per unit to inject the housing in a different way that provides a hard barrier between the mechanicals and air intake so it got shitcanned...
Maybe more like $0.05. But yeah..
I'm not sure, but your comment seems to imply an assumption that the foam was designed to be external to the air path and is getting unintentionally sucked in? That's not the case, the foam is literally only inside an "air chamber" that the air directly travels through.
But how did they die?
Blows gas and pieces of foam into the airway. So it suffocates you when it's supposed to stop you from suffocating basically.
Philips said it would stop selling the devices in the U.S
Lol wtf bro! Just stop selling it! Fuckers will now start selling in in 3rd world countries like China, India etc.
China is not a third world country
Oh really ? Damn i was there last year and no different that other 3rd world. Rampant poverty, shitty roads etc. Mind it , I was not living in the city , city is developed but same is the case for all 3rd world countries.
Come to the midwest of the USA. You'll find all of that shit out here, too, if you know where to look.
The US is also a third world country just like china.
And Antarctica
I don’t separate countries by arbitrary terms like “third world.” It’s a country and people live within it.
It is sort of by definition. Third world doesn't actually mean poor or backward
I use another brand (Resmed) and pulled my old one apart to see what's inside. They are well engineered - and they need to be, as they run 7-8 hours, every night. They also have quite a bit of soundproofing surounding the pump. Mine had spray expanding foam and the spongy seat padding type, but this is all outside the airflow. I suppose they could use foam inside the air tubes for further sound damping, but it seems a bit dumb as if any breaks off it will go straight up your nose.
Don't buy their shit. They already made cancerous feeding bottles for babies, so...
The FDA's regulation or lack thereof is partially a horror show. Not just for this. But all sorts of implants and techniques get grandfathered in and lead to partially horrific results for people.
Oh I think it was Medical Devices: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) where I saw this. 4 year old.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Medical Devices: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Food and Drug Administration says 561 deaths have been reported in connection to recalled Philips devices to treat obstructive sleep apnea and other breathing disorders.
The grim tally comes days after Philips said it would stop selling the machines in the U.S. in a settlement with the FDA and the Justice Department expected to cost roughly $400 million, the company disclosed in a regulatory filing.
The tentative agreement, which must be approved by a U.S. court, calls for the company to keep servicing apnea machines already being used while stopping to sell new ones until specific conditions are met.
Claims for financial losses related to the purchase, lease or rent of the recalled machines can be now be lodged in the wake of a proposed class-action settlement reached in September.
Claims for financial losses related to the purchase, lease or rent of the recalled devices can be made, with eligible users entitled to:
Roughly 30 million people have sleep apnea, a disorder in which one's airways become blocked during rest, interrupting breathing, according to 2022 data from the American Medical Association.
The original article contains 515 words, the summary contains 180 words. Saved 65%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Rubbish summary. My first question was "how can a device that basically forces you to breathe, kill you?"
The Dutch medical device maker has recalled millions of the breathing machines amid reports they were blowing gas and pieces of foam into the airways of those using the devices.
Polyester-based polyurethane foam used in the devices to reduce sound and vibration can break down, with black pieces of foam or invisible chemicals that can be breathed in or swallowed by the person using the device. "These issues could potentially result in serious injury and require medical intervention to prevent permanent injury," the FDA stated.
Wow, how can this have been an oversight? Let's just blow a bunch of microplastics down everyone's throats.
Does not even make sense from a business standpoint, if you kill your customers you won't have customers.
Killing your customers slowly can be extremely profitable, and is preferred to not monetizing the poison at all (tobacco, alcohol, opioids, sugar, fossil fuels).
If this happened after 20 or 30 years it would be considered normal wear and tear, and well beyond the "usable life" of a product in the age of planned obsolescence.
I could just be they breakdown slowly and weren't picked up by tests.
There are cpap cleaners that use Ozone which breaks down the foam faster than the manufacturer thought possible.
They worked too well
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