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[-] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This seems kind of a weird study as they're polling the self-selected group that has already chosen to use these bikes anyway. This pretty much excludes all the people that didn't like using the bikes.

I live in Finland and I love mountain biking but it's a bitch when there's snow on the ground so I bought an eFatbike so I could ride year around. And I mean a proper full size one. It does what I intented it to which is keeping me on the trails year around but last winter I thought I'd give bike commuting a chance aswell. My conclusion was that it fucking suuucks. If I had to choose between a bus and a bike then I'd perhaps favour the bike but compared to a car there's no competition. There's zero chance I'd replace my car with a bike. I'm more than happy to pay extra for the luxury and freedom it provides. If I lived in a big city then perhaps this would be a different but most of the trips I use my car for I couldn't reasonably do with a bike.

Another effect I noticed bike commuting to cause is that I no longer had the desire (or battery charge) to go for joyrides after work. It turned an enjoyable hobby into chore.

[-] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Yeah this would get me killed. No one and I mean no one rides bikes on the roads I have to drive.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

That makes sense. Biking feels more real than driving. Like you’re actually part of a place. I’ve had huge mental benefits from switching to biking and walking for my groceries when I can

[-] maegul@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago

I feel like it’s not spoken about enough. There’s something fundamentally weird and off about driving around town in a car. You don’t really see it until you stop using a car for a while and then get back into one … it’s a weird experience … more weird IMO than flying on a passenger jet.

Also the deep frustrations built into the experience. Traffic, stop lights, navigating obstacles, bad drivers, pedestrians etc, while in a car that is relatively big, sometimes too big for its environment and that naturally wants to go much much faster than is often practical or safe. It can really be maddening. We talk about road rage in terms of how crazy some people must be, when in reality it’s obviously the experience of driving that’s like being forced to play an unenjoyable video game … all the time.

In retrospect I think the future will look weirdly on the idea that we all did this all the time and how stressful it must have been to do something that takes up so much of our time and to do something so dangerous everyday.

[-] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I could not relate less to what you just said. I thoroughly enjoy driving. One of the contributin reasons to why I stopped bike commuting was that my truck just sat unused in the carage all day and I missed driving. To me this sound more like that you're perhaps not very experienced driver and you find it stressful due to how much concentration it requires. This is not the case for me. Just like when riding my mountain bike I don't really think about how to operate the bike. I don't even think of me being on the bike but rather the bike just being an extension of me. I get the same feeling when driving a car. Driving a boat on the other hand I do find stressful and I'm quite sure the reason is that I only do it a handful of times a year so I'm not 100% confident in my skills.

[-] ganoo@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

Do you thoroughly enjoy sitting in traffic and terrible drivers trying to crash into you? That's what he's referring to.

[-] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

Traffic and bad drivers are part of driving like flat tires, noisy brakes and broken chains are part of cycling. That's not what I enjoy about it but it's part of the deal that I'm willing to accept.

[-] Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

I don't pop 3 tires and break a chain everytime I bike and yet everytime I drive to work I have to sit in traffic and deal with jackasses..... I'm curious about how you feel they're similar.

[-] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Have you considered the possibility that not everyone lives in a densely populated urban centre like Toronto? My city has population of 120k people. Traffic is virtually unheard of here.

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[-] maegul@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

To me this sound more like that you’re perhaps not very experienced driver

Nah ... driven (and ridden motorbikes) plenty.

It can be plenty of fun on the open road or when doing it with friends and cruising around. But the moment there's traffic and the density of an actual city ... nah, there's something off about it for me. I only tend to notice it once I stop driving around for a while and then get back in a car. I don't mind driving, but there's something there for me.

[-] drphungky@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I like driving when I am not in a rush and not dealing with traffic...so basically never while commuting. I don't mind driving to a friend's place, or a long road trip, but bike commuting is superior for me. I don't need to make weird sweeping assumptions since you said you live in a small city, but commuting traffic is a nightmare on many coastal cities and major metros, so it is probably not a lack of experience so much as you're commuting in an area unlike most major metros.

I actually work from home now, but I bike commuted for over a decade, including for a couple years a one way ride of 22 miles. No matter how tired I was in the morning or how I didn't feel like getting on the bike, I'd always feel better once I started going, vs a car which studies have shown saps your energy. Also, there is something magical about biking over a highway and seeing standstill traffic that you'd be in as you toodle along without having to stop.

Plus the calculus I always did was that by turning an irregular 45-75 minute commute into a guaranteed 93 minute commute meant I was spending at most an extra hour and a half to get 3 hours worth of a workout. That frees up so much time for leisure and means you don't have to workout basically at all.

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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah exactly. Taking mass transit like trains and planes is mindless and communal and you can pay attention to or ignore what you’re passing. Driving leaves you having to pay a little attention to it, but only a little and you’re in control but not like “I can stop and enjoy the sights or easily duck out for a breather level of in control. And yeah that really gets to the point of it, cars are extremely anti social. You’re left outside the experience of community with them.

And you’re exactly right. It’s low level stress. To do anything or go anywhere and it has a ton of perks but they’re all relative to how many people drive. If society is built around an assumption of cars, bus service is at best decent but inconvenient and restrictive with no sympathy to transit related issues. If you’re one of the few drivers it’s just way faster because the roads let you do it. But for every perk there’s cost and it compounds across all of us until our cities are filled with parking lots and we don’t know our neighbors’ faces

[-] maegul@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

To respond to you and the sibling comment about actually enjoying cars … the low level stress also includes the possibility of becoming high level stress.

Experience driving was brought up, and so it’s worth asking who here has experienced or seen what bad accidents look like. I’ve seen a fair few, some horrific, been a passenger when someone was hit (they were fine fortunately) and myself have accidentally run over my own cat (they survived but their leg was never the same … though in the moment I could only imagine the worst). It builds up over time as you realise how fundamentally dangerous these things are especially once you realise that there are naive pets and children around, or that more than many things in our lives, death is a single mistake away.

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[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

That makes sense. Biking feels more real than driving. Like you’re actually part of a place.

You put into words what I've been feeling every time I'm on a bike.

My wife asked me to drive her somewhere last night, and I hated it. Sitting felt uncomfortable, being boxed in was unpleasant, having no connection to the real world other than from a metal and glass box sucks. And this was just a short trip across town, had it been in traffic, I would have sent her off in an Uber. LOL

When I ride my bike, even through a small subdivision or quiet downtown streets, I'm able to hear the world around me, smell the wonderful meals being cooked or laundry being dried. And I can feel the ground beneath me and wind on my face as I glide along. Pure joy.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Exactly. And even when I tune out on my bike I am moving an easily comprehensible distance at a comprehensible speed under my own power. And for public transport it feels like a feature of the location “this spot takes you to any of these spots” much like “this spot lets you borrow books for a few weeks”. For cars you have to kinda isolate, tune out, and become traffic.

[-] Grass@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

I find it also wakes me up and I feel alert even without caffeine by the time I get to work. Plus apart from when drivers can't follow a fucking line and drive in the bike lane, which is almost every day, traffic can get fucked on the way home.

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[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 year ago

I love the idea of a cargo bike, but I think that most people would still be better off with a normal bike + a trailer and/or panniers.

Why?

  • Much, much more affordable.
  • Easier to store.
  • Easier to maintain a regular bike.
  • More flexibility.
  • You can take a regular bike to more places (off road, on a train, into a shop, etc.).
  • You can travel with a regular bike or folding bike.
  • It's easier to get around with a regular bike.

But cargo bikes have their uses, especially if you're hauling kids all the time, or your primary use is to carry cargo. I love seeing people using cargo bikes, I'm not going to lie. 🤗

[-] TheFonz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Cargo bikes are nice...but man they are not affordable for the average Joe.

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Electric ones are crazy expensive. Like, "more than a car", expensive.

If you can still find a non-electric version, and you've got the leg strength to move it, they are generally less than < $3000 Canadian. Not terrible, but still way more than a regular bike + extras to add cargo capacity.

The biggest problem I have is that cars are incentivized all the time, especially electric cars. But most places don't have e-bike or cargo bike incentive rebates at all, and the ones that do are frustratingly bad.

If governments were really serious about reducing car dependency; traffic; pedestrian safety; and getting people to move more, then we should try to make it easier (more affordable) to buy these bikes.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

There’s some things that frustrate me about panniers. For instance, let’s say I’m going to visit a friend, and then might do some grocery shopping on the way home. Now I need to bring my panniers, and since they’re valuable alone, I don’t want to leave them on the bike when it’s locked. So I carry them with me to visit my friend, and then have to reattach them coming back. Then, same thing bringing them into the grocery store, or it could turn out I don’t have time that day.

A cargo bike basically seems to keep more options open for a lot of trips, just like the versatility of driving around the city with a 4-person car.

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[-] cubism_pitta@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

I got a fixed gear bike last year and a trailer to pull my kids around in (when they want to go with me).

I pretty much exclusively use that to get around and get groceries instead of my car now.

Even in the rain, it's just so much more fun to be on a bicycle than to drive.

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[-] aeharding@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

My middle school science teacher would hunt down whoever made this chart if he saw it ಠ_ಠ

[-] kubica@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

You can tell your teacher that I'll help.

[-] fixerdude2@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

I don’t even have a cargo bike and I’m hooked. Unfortunately, most drivers in my city wants to run over bikers.

[-] tombruzzo@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

I use a trailer pram to ride my twin boys around. We ride to the shops, swimming lessons, parks, and the nearest shopping centre together. They absolutely love it.

We also get the best parking spots wherever we go and avoid traffic, which is more pleasant even if the ride takes longer.

[-] Lennnny@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I splurged on an electric bike ($2k) instead of investing in upgrading my vehicle. I haven't sold my vehicle yet, but now I prefer to bike to the store than drive. The way our town is laid out, you have to drive around a few other businesses and through two busy traffic light sections to get to the supermarket, but on foot or bike you can just cut down the back of a strip mall and halve the distance. Now, I get exercise on grocery runs, I am limited in space so I don't impulse buy, I don't have to pay for gas, I don't have to sit in traffic, I have less chance of getting into an accident, AND it's just as quick as going by car. My only complaint is the lack of bike parking in the parking lot, so I have to chain it up to a fence round back.

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[-] LilDumpy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Can I get one of these, but electric? I'll take two if they look way cooler.

[-] cubism_pitta@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Can I get one of these, but electric? I’ll take two if they look way cooler.

I think the bike in the article is electric I thought it looked like this, but it could be another manufacturer's design

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/products/cargo-line

[-] hushable@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Most modern cargo bikes are electric. It is actually kinda hard to find a non electric cago bike nowadays.

The bike from the article looks like a Tern

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[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Main problem I see is having the space for secure storage if you have a fairly small house or flat

Amen, I live in a small one bedroom flat and we have 3 bikes. We have a tiny outdoor space where I can keep my main commuter for easy access but the other 2 are in the house and I have parts stashed all over. Add in a healthy collection of skateboards / long boards and my house is starting to look like a garage and my gf hates it but there is fuck all we can do about it! Can barely afford this rent let alone finding a bigger house of some kind.

[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago
[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

... which can be left securely in the street

[-] BastingChemina@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 year ago

This is something else that future generation will look weirdly at. The idea that you can just leave you car to occupy public space.

Most of the public space is taken up by car, it's insane when you think about it.

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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Imagining riding around with the sidecars full of water. (shudder)

https://www.tripsavvy.com/weather-in-portland-oregon-2743084

"Among U.S. cities, Portland ranks third with 164 rainy days annually."

[-] sampao@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago

I think a couple of holes in the cart means... Your argument really doesn't hold water

[-] verysoft@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Or a cover...

[-] Ledivin@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

... you really can't think of a solution to that very predictable and common problem? A top on the buckets? Holes in the bottom?

[-] verysoft@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

This is why shampoo needs instructions.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

They aren't paying me to fix their bad design.

[-] wahming@monyet.cc 3 points 1 year ago

The only thing bad here is your assumptions

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[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

There's no way those things don't drain and you can 100% ride in the rain, just saying.

[-] krelvar@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I have an Aventon abound, and I use it for most of my <10 mile trips. I like it a lot, but I wish it was mid-drive, and my next cargo bike will be mid for sure.

[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

belt + mid drive = chef's kiss

[-] UnPassive@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Upgraded to a newer camry a few years ago when I got my first "real" job - bought a commuter bike with panier bags soon after and use it exclusively in town. I LOVE my bike. Would sell the car if it were possible to out of town with public transportation where I live.

Anyway, you can carry a lot without a cargo bike - especially if you have no kids and thereby have small grocery hauls

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this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
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micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility

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Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!

"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.

micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"

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