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I feel like most of the criticism comes down to the reviewer not liking 17-inch class laptops, but good review.
Definitely part of it, but they also compare to other laptops with similarly sized displays etc and it is larger and heavier despite being less powerful than many of them. Obviously that's because it's modular and will be more powerful in future as a result too, but still fair to point out.
absolutely
while It is a little weaker than the competition and at a higher price, It's a piece o tech that will last far longer
in 5 or 10 years you would only need to pay for a new cpu or gpu, meanwhile with other brands you'd have to buy a new laptop altogether
and having the ability to swap your IO whenever and with whatever you need, is a game changer for some folks
If the vendor is still around in 10 years.
That's the bit I'm worried about, having a Framework.
have to say I have had the same concern. it could happen, any business can fold. I just bought a new AMD 13 anyway. I've decided that the right to repair (and, lol, option to repair, even) is far more important than maximizing my dollar to fps ratio and I'm happy to add my contribution to the cause
Well, we know their model is dead if they go public. If they remain private, they could still die but it's less certain. 🥹
Many of the components are standard, you can get them from anywhere. Bunch of others are open source. The only real concern is cpu/gpu
Once you're spending more than $2,000 on a 5-pound laptop, most people would be better off buying multiple computers—an inexpensive thin-and-light laptop for battery life and portability, plus a good midrange desktop for performance and comfort.
Yeah, I mean, you would. But if that configuration works for you, this is simply not a product for you. This product is for people who need portable power. 🤷
My issue with the Laptop 16 is more about the design of the computer itself, how it's positioned, and the need it serves—things that are more fundamental and harder to fix.
Design is subjective. I think it's beautiful and extremely functional.
The need it serves is a laptop that doesn't have to be replaced every few years. Saves money in the long term, helps the environment, and is far more future proof than anything else.
Not hard. Framework has been killing it with their previous models.
Once you're spending more than $2,000 on a 5-pound laptop, most people would be better off buying multiple computers—an inexpensive thin-and-light laptop for battery life and portability, plus a good midrange desktop for performance and comfort.
Does this guy live in the real world? This sounds like sarcasm, but it's not.
The bad
- Relatively expensive for what you're getting.
- On the larger and heavier end of the 15-to-16-inch > laptop spectrum.
- GPU module adds a lot of size and weight.
- Upgradeability currently more of a hypothetical >future benefit, though Framework does have an >established track record now.
Expensive yes, but you are getting a lot. And you save money in the long-term.
Larger end.. Yeah, it's a 16" laptop....
GPU is optional, and anyone who needs it in a laptop are willing to take that weight penalty.
Upgradability is a hypothetical future benefit? Framework already offers upgrades to their other models. And even a battery swap, which isn't always possible, easy, or budget friendly, is a snap.
This review is so short slighted, and seems to miss the actual point of owning a framework laptop.
This review is so short slighted, and seems to miss the actual point of owning a framework laptop.
I feel like laptop reviewers, who go through dozens of laptops in a year to test new models, are inherently the wrong audience for something that isn't meant to be top of the line horsepower and sleek. No shade to them, I get the desire to have a 3lbs slim device that can video edit on the lap on a subway or whatever, but this thing is big and bulky so that parts are easier to access and nothing is soldered down. It's basically perfect for me as long as it runs.
Once you're spending more than $2,000 on a 5-pound laptop, most people would be better off buying multiple computers—an inexpensive thin-and-light laptop for battery life and portability, plus a good midrange desktop for performance and comfort.
Does this guy live in the real world? This sounds like sarcasm, but it's not.
Double your e-waste with this one simple trick 👍
It's so frustrating to be able to see the negative externalities in plain sight and be unable to firmly advise against them because the system considers them free in order to make something of immediate importance to the person possible. E.g. make ends meet by spending $500 less on a laptop you need today by generating more ewaste in the process.
I think the audience he is writing for is more the gamer, regular consumer type of user. People who need power for games, not workloads. The kinds of people who talk about repairable portable workstations on a federated social media platform are likely not his ordinary audience lol
I love the aesthetic design.
The whole conversation about ports misses the not-so-obvious point that the cartridge system saves the motherboard ports from destruction. This is extremely important for long-term use. Ports not only have limited cycle life but get killed by happenstances in life. Standard laptops lose ports over time. That can only be fixed by board replacement. On a Framework, it's $20 and a cartridge reload.
Then there's the cooling... A laptop with adequate cooling for its hardware... What is this this - the 2000s? With that kind of cooling capacity, this machine will last for a very long time.
Ports not only have limited cycle life but get killed by happenstances in life. Standard laptops lose ports over time. That can only be fixed by board replacement. On a Framework, it’s $20 and a cartridge reload.
This is so true! Whether it's the power port, a standard USB port, or your HDMI port, damaging it on a regular laptop can either be costly or impossible to fix without a full mobo replacement.
Looking back at all the laptops I've owned that needed to be replaced because repairs were either non-existent or too expensive, I realize that every single one of them could have been saved if they'd been Framework laptops.
I love my Framework 13, but when it comes time for my wife to replace her current laptop (a 17" Dell that's been a workhorse for over a decade), I'll be getting the Framework 16 and she'll have the 13. I don't think I could ever go with another brand after my experience.
The port in my old XPS 15 ~~can be~~ has been replaced in 10 minutes with a screwdriver, with a $5 replacement port. I honestly don't even love the laptop but I can't fault it's repairability.
My point is while this framework laptop is insanely cool, I don't think that repairability is as huge an advantage as it's made out to be. Beats a macbook I guess, but for a lot of mainstream laptops the only difference in repairability is needing a screwdriver set and I little more time (negligible imo since I only need to repair/upgrade maybe every 2-3 years. maybe)
You're lucky your XPS'es port is replaceable without a mainboard swap. Is this true for all ports?
Also the repairability comparison with mainstream machines lacks a crucial point. The availability of genuine parts and for reasonable prices. A Framework battery runs me about 60-70 bucks. A genuine battery for my ThinkPad has typically been closer to $150. If I could even find one.
Hold on, the battery's another thing I had to replace. Let me find how much I paid.
Edit: I paid a little less than $50 on eBay from ebl. They're a reputable seller, I bought rechargeable AAA's from them more than five years ago and they're still kicking
**ebl. **They’re a reputable seller, I bought rechargeable AAA’s from them more than five years ago and they’re still kicking
I have a ton of EBL batteries. And my reality was confirmed when Project Farm did a "one year later" follow-up, which confirmed what I was experiencing: EBL batteries are garbage. LOL
I haven't done any real tests so I guess I'll defer to you on that. It's been more than three years of daily use since installing the laptop battery though, so I'd say the fact that I haven't noticed a significant drop in battery life means that $50 is no less then a fair price.
Ok I just looked up oem, damn I'm cheap lol: https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-6-cell-97-wh-lithium-ion-replacement-battery-for-select-laptops/apd/gpm03/pc-accessories
No not all ports, just power and and auxilary, but I honestly can't recall a single time that I've lost a usb port.
Here's the (excellent) repair docs if you're interested: https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/xps-15-9560-laptop_Setup-Guide_en-us.pdf
My old latitude from 2011 is similarly easy to repair, it's running a jellyfin server rn.
I've lost USB-A on a ThinkPad and a miniDP. The USB went from use, the miniDP got destroyed in an accident.
still waiting for a version with Coreboot
AMD is making good progress towards supporting coreboot, at least
and a ThinkPad t2xx style keyboard
It's only a matter of time before custom key oard layouts are a thing, I'm sure.
Apparently Framework sent out a bunch of flawed test units to reviewers. That's why some reviewers had drastically different experiences. That was an epic fail.
The question is are the production run also flawed?
Like I said, some people had much better experience than others.
They're pre-production units and fw is a small company.
This isn't the first time this has happened. They've managed to fix the issues in the past
Straight away I can see wasted space next to the keyboard which could be used for a numpad
You can have a numpad. Check the review.
@avidamoeba @JackGreenEarth you can have the numbad now and remove it later. And put it pack. Total flexibility. Can’t wait to have it delivered
Lucky bastard. I can't justify a 16, sticking to my peasant 13. 🥲
I stand corrected, looks like a great laptop, if you have twice as much to spend as I did on my laptop with 16GB RAM, 2 512GB SSDs, 120hz 16' screen, NVIDIA 1660 ti and a numpad 3 years ago.
I mean ultimately what you're paying for here is the modularity of the device. Some people like the idea that they won't have to junk or RMA the whole laptop when something goes bad or no longer meets their needs. The fact that you can get more I/O and storage functionality out of the 4/6 expansion bays down the road is probably worth it to at least a few people. I appreciate that support is at least implied for bigger and better CPUs/GPUs down the road, and I know a few people in my industry who would appreciate the ability to swap out an additional USB-C, HDMI, or DisplayPort port depending on where they're presenting and what kind of equipment they have.
this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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