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Electrify All the Big, Noisy, Belching Trucks (www.nytimes.com)
submitted 10 months ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/climate@slrpnk.net
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[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 77 points 10 months ago

Electrifying the trucks will not solve the problem. Batteries don't have the energy density to work for long haul trucks.

Zero emissions long haul freight is a solved problem. Electrified rail. It just needs to be built.

Governments are continuing to subsidize trucks instead of building the solution that already exists.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 42 points 10 months ago

There is still last mile/miles concerns. Not every grocer can have a rail spur, but it can be serviced by a local fleet of electric trucks. The ultimate solution is a mix of various electrified transport.

[-] hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Freight trolly has been a thing and is still used in some places. Between trains, freight trolly, and cargo bikes you could cover basically all urban use cases and most rural use cases.

Logistics predatss cars and trucks by quite a bit, the last hundred years has been an aboration masquerading as the norm. Those old solutions can be brought back.

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

I'm curious what you think the energy density needs to be for it to be viable and why? The way I see it energy density is a very minor factor for this equation but I'm curious to hear your explanation.

[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Are there any long haul electric trucks currently in widespread use? No, there really aren't. Batteries are the reason. If it were economically viable we would see long haul electric trucks. Major truck manufactures make electric trucks. Kennworth and Peterbilt, the two biggest truck manufactures in the united states have electric truck models, and they are only their short haul models. Battery electric trucks are fine for delivery vans, and last mile delivery applications. But long haul trucks do not work with batteries. If these truck makers thought long haul trucks were viable they would make them. They have the technology to do battery trucks.

The technology to do zero emission long haul overland freight already exists. Governments should spend money on that instead of praying that batteries eventually become good enough to maintain the status quo.

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

I like trains and I'm not American. You brought up energy density as the factor preventing long haul. Please don't appeal to authority as the argument but rather state what you think the energy density needs to be and why to make electric long haul viable.

[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

The specific energy of batteries are currently an order of magnitude less than diesel. This is not a problem that is going to be solved by a slightly improved battery. The weight of batteries needed to carry long haul cargo makes it a non-starter.

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

This is also true for cars, but electric cars are viable even though its the same comparison between energy density. Would you be willing to have this conversation with actual calculations and specified arguments regarding the numbers?

[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

I'll do the calculations if you pay my consultancy fee.

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

How about we both do the calculations and we cancel each others consultant fees?

[-] Hypx@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You want hydrogen trucks for this. It actually has the energy density needed.

[-] Hypx@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago

You actually want hydrogen trucks. It actually has the energy density needed.

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 3 points 10 months ago

In a train a single train driver can transport a hundred containers. In a truck it is one. Similar story for other types of freight. At the same time electric trains are incredibly efficient, do not need recharging and are a common well understood technology. So you already have economy of scale for electric trains, whereas hydrogen trucks are extremely rarer.

The only situation hydrogen trucks are better then trains, is transporting a bit of cargo to a very remote location.

[-] Hypx@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago

Except you have to have overhead powerlines. Not feasible in every location. Otherwise, your trains are diesel powered.

[-] sonori@beehaw.org 19 points 10 months ago

Better yet, replace all the long haul routes with electric intermodal rail. That way you don’t take away from battery production, publicly funded roads last longer, and freight gets much cheaper. The main problem is that railroad executives put the rail industry in “managed decline” because their fleet management and organization is so shit that any customer that can will pay a massive premium to never interact with them.

[-] Unlearned9545@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Trains for long haul. Electric trucks for last mile. Existing disel trucks for long haul sparsely populated areas.

[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

hydrogen is the nuclear of energy

edit: in trucks

[-] Donebrach@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Pretty sure nuclear is the nuclear of energy.

[-] tenshukun@discuss.online 1 points 10 months ago

nuclear is the nuclear of energy?

[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 2 points 10 months ago

did an edit

[-] sqw@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 10 months ago

been following this dude on tiktok since this company was just a gleam in his eye. they making electric plugin hybrid trucks

https://www.tiktok.com/@_edison.motors

https://www.edisonmotors.ca/

this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
165 points (100.0% liked)

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