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submitted 1 year ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/climate@slrpnk.net
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[-] neanderthal@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Beef is the biggest mass consumed culprit. I think mutten might be worse, but it isn't eaten nearly as much.

My point is, if you struggle to reduce meat consumption, just reducing beef consumption would make a big difference. Next time you are out, get a chicken sandwich instead of a burger. It's that simple.

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 40 points 1 year ago

Just 12% of Americans - mostly men between age 50 and 65 - are responsible for half the beef consumption in America

Fantastic. Another reason to celebrate old people dying.

[-] sour@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

is "meat is manly" related

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[-] Chetzemoka@startrek.website 17 points 1 year ago

This is the actual reason I default to chicken and sometimes opt for fish. And oat milk. It's not everything, but it's a hell of a lot better than eating beef five nights a week and barely required any effort on my part.

[-] Drusas@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Do people really eat beef that frequently? Jesus.

[-] Chetzemoka@startrek.website 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're not accustomed to the American South or Midwest, I see. You can put ground beef in a lot of common dishes.

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[-] stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Next time you are out, get a chicken sandwich instead of a burger. It's that simple.

I wish it was that simple, but it isn't. If consumers replace chicken with beef, chicken will get more expensive and beef will get less expensive. Maybe some factory farmers and slaughterhouses will change species and ranchers will hire a PR firm to start a "eat more beef" add campaign. A new equilibrium will be reached with no significant impact on animal welfare or the climate, because the meat industry is well aware that consumer preferences shift over time and is happy to accommodate those shifts as long as consumers keep eating meat.

What sends a message is vegetarianism or veganism. And, to a lesser extent, buying your meat from a local cooperative or raising your own. Taking money out of the pockets of the factory farm industry as a whole saves animals and sends a message. Just eating less beef doesn't.

[-] neanderthal@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Ideally, more people would eat way less meat.

I stand by it being that simple. Beef production has more than 3 times the emissions per pound than other meats.

It isn't about sending a message, it is about reducing GHG emissions.

As far as prices, maybe. I don't know the ins and outs of raising animals for food. I don't think meat prices are entirely supply and demand due to different costs in raising different animals.

[-] federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

your link is new to me, so i dug through it a bit, checked some references, and i've decided the methodology is bad, and the authors either know this or they should have known this. the primary source for the LCA comparisons says, in plain english, in the introduction that LCA's should not be used for comparisons due to a lack of control for the data gathering procedures. the actual paper's purpose was to, i shit you not, ignore this guidance, average every datapoint they could find for any food type, and then stock them together in one paper.... to let you compare LCAs. this is shoddy work.

i didn't bother to go digging into the tertiary sources on which your link relies, but i will say i did some of the reading into the sources for other papers on the impacts of animal agriculture, and i have yet to find any investigation that doesn't attribute to livestock all of the impacts of everything in their diet. that seems reasonable: if a cow eats it, then it should be counted. but that falls apart under scrutiny. my primary example is that, in the united states, many cattle are fed cottonseed. cottonis not a food crop, though. it's a textile. the cottonseed is a byproduct, and whether we feed it to cattle or press it for oil, any such use is actually reclaiming resources. how should that be counted? it's not as though cottonseed is an essential part of cattle diets, it's only through the happenstance of its availability and relative price point that it's in there at all.

and this just points at a larger problem: everything in our agricultural sector is so intertwined and interdependent that the impact of anything is a mercurial notion, that changes on a seasonal basis dependent on the weather, technology, and people's feelings.

i don't believe beef can't be raised sustainably (which is to say, indefinitely on a given plot of land, given sufficient sun and rainfall). i'm open to data about this, but cattle were among the first domesticated animals, and we've seen all kinds of climate change since then, so cattle can't be the problem in-and-of themselves.

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[-] BastingChemina@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 year ago

Also, falafels sandwich are amazing !

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[-] ElcaineVolta@kbin.social 39 points 1 year ago

living vegan has never been easier!

[-] spacecowboy@sh.itjust.works 34 points 1 year ago

I just stopped eating all together. I’ve never had as much disposable income in my

In your... What? You stopped. Sir? Sir?

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[-] hansl@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Some people unfortunately do not have access to good vegan options. That being said, people can reduce their consumption of red meat significantly and make an impact.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

[-] ElcaineVolta@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

vegan options? like produce, grains, and legumes? are you in a food desert yourself?
the "vegan options" you're referring to are at the supermarket, and they are the cheapest items in there.

[-] hansl@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I have plenty of friends who are vegans. I also have a few who tried it and failed because it’s not a switch you just turn off.

Giving the advice “just go vegan” is bad advice and counterproductive. There should be research into what it means and how to eat healthy vegan meals. You don’t just turn off the meat, which is what a lot of people assume they should do.

As a matter of fact I’d give the advice “go vegetarian, keep the milk eggs and fish, and if you like it and want to go further look into replacing those with some good vegan options.” It should be a process. Unless you start buying Soylent (the product not the movie), but that’s disgusting.

[-] crystal@feddit.de 13 points 1 year ago

Consuming meat doesn't automatically make you have a balanced and nutrituous diet. If you cared about that, you should inform yourself even if your not vegan.

Also "go vegetarian, keep the [...] fish", lmao.

[-] Nevoic@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I went vegan on a random Thursday a few years ago after learning about the ethical reality here, that harming animals for pleasure or convenience is unjustified.

It didn't happen all in one day (the learning that is), but I didn't do any meal planning. Didn't even order vegan food before I decided to go vegan. Next time I went to the store I only bought vegan things. Since then anytime I have the ability to buy vegan goods, I do (which has been 100% of the time because I live in the west in the 21st century).

If you're homeless in the middle of Palestine being bombed relentlessly by a genocidal state, yeah I'm not going to complain about you eating eggs that were given to you from a homeless shelter. If you're rich enough to drive to the store and buy groceries yourself in the U.S or Europe, you have no excuse.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago

cost, convenience, and culture are the three reasons im not actively vegan. i drink soylent and huel. i do (a lot of ) my own baking. i have lots of vegan friends.

but nothing quite hits the convenience/cost equilibrium like 2/$1 gas station hot dogs. 500 hot calories available 24 hours a day literally on my way anywhere to do anything.

and i'm a community organizer. part of that is meeting people where they are. if i refuse to eat what they're eating, it sets me apart. so i can't very well turn down culturally relevant foods like burgers or hotdogs or whatever is at the picnic.

these aren't excuses. they're reasons. to overcome them, you've got to beat gas station hotdogs on cost and convenience, and convince my region to go vegan. i'm not spending my time on that.

[-] Nevoic@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I understand the reasons why people aren't vegan. I also understand the reason why slaughterhouse workers have far higher rates of violence (domestic and non-domestic). I understand why people do terrible things, people aren't born evil. Even Nazis weren't born with some disposition to be evil. It's not like literally millions of Germans just had some natural predisposition to be unbelievably evil and that went away once they lost WW2.

These are learned behaviors. I understand the reasons. They're still not an excuse. You're failing to do what you need to do, and just because I understand why you're failing doesn't mean you're not failing.

Maybe you don't care, maybe you like animal abuse, maybe you know you're doing something wrong and see yourself as a failure. No matter your own views, the mass torture/genocide is still happening, and you're supporting it. Hopefully one day you grow enough as a person to stop.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

maybe you like animal abuse, maybe you know you're doing something wrong

this is just a personal attack.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I understand why people do terrible things, people aren't born evil. Even Nazis weren't born with some disposition to be evil. It's

eating culturally appropriate food is incomparable to the Nazis and you should be ashamed of the comparison

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[-] hightrix@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

This comment is straight up vegan propaganda.

If you want to make arguments, do it. But leave emotion at the curb.

This comment makes me want to eat MORE meat.

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[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

Hopefully one day you grow enough as a person to stop.

your guilt trip isn't going to work here.

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[-] currentbias@open-source-eschaton.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@hansl @ElcaineVolta most people have access to beans, rice, and canned vegetables. If you can find nutritional yeast, then you're really in business

Vegan food is not some special, hard-to-access category of food, it's just food without animals. A lot of what you already eat is probably accidentally vegan: https://www.reddit.com/r/accidentallyvegan

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 year ago

Either you live in the west where you get vegan options right in the store.

Or you don't in which case meat isn't naturalised as much and you have plenty of vegan dishes right from the get go.

[-] OnU@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago

Plant based for the environment, vegan for the animals🖖

[-] soupcat@sopuli.xyz 22 points 1 year ago

So many good reasons to eat less meat.

[-] Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 year ago

Eat...Rich...Eat the rich! Ok!

[-] Nonameuser678@aussie.zone 19 points 1 year ago

My recommendation is learn to love lentils. Replace the beef in your spag bol with them. So good and so much cheaper. Also beans, there are so many good things you can do with them.

[-] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

Lentils r amazing, although they severely lack protein. Plus, they alone do not have all 9 required amino acids. To get them, u need to consume lentils AND beans.

The daily RDA for me is around 56 grams of protein. If I had to meet this demand via lentils and beans alone, then I would need to consume around 460 grams of lentils and beans DAILY. Yeah... Imagine the AMOUNT of gases after that lol.

HOWEVER, there still is a solution that I found. Say hello to "TVP", ie., "Texturised Vegetable Protein". This basically concentrates all this protein, while having all 9 required amino acids. To meet my RDA, I would need to consume just 120 grams.

I still do have lentils and beans sometimes. However, TVP is still always present in some form.

[-] currentbias@open-source-eschaton.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@UraniumBlazer @Nonameuser678 56 grams of protein from all sources. There is protein in almost everything you eat, and it combines to reach that goal. You don't have to get all 56 grams from just lentils and beans

Also, it's rice or some other grain you want to pair with lentils to achieve a complete protein, not beans -- beans are legumes, and most legumes have a similar amino acid profile

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[-] jayrodtheoldbod@midwest.social 18 points 1 year ago

The good news is that the methane emissions are so damn bad that it also means that relatively modest reductions (in global percentage) will go a long way toward the problem.

Meat got expensive AF for me and my family. I'm actually surprised how easy it was to switch.

A lot of vegetarian alternatives are now catering towards former meat eaters, so the taste lines up better. And I also found a secret weapon. Asian mock meats is really really good.

Once in a while, I treat the family to those beyond meats, which taste pretty real. But they're also expensive so...

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

If I’m making almost anything with ground beef, Impossible Beef is just as good if not better. Can’t wait for it to drop even more in price.

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[-] AEMarling@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 year ago

A reminder that oil companies invented “carbon footprint” to distract you while they continue to pollute. Form unions and solidarity networks to overcome harmful systems. Don’t argue over hamburgers.

Reminder that this doesn't absolve you from your personal responsibilities. You do need to be making choices that move the world towards a better future.

Besides that the number one reason for land loss, the loss of biodiversity, nitrate pollution, and methane production is still the bio-industy. Let alone the ethical implications of killing billions of animals a month.

You can do both. No, you're obliged to do both. Stop supporting bio-industy and fight for rights.

[-] Akisamb@programming.dev 12 points 1 year ago

These companies pollute to satisfy a demand. If people stopped driving cars, TotalEnergy and Shell would sell less oil.

Where these companies are evil is when they try to influence people and politicians. For example jay walking is a crime because of them.

That said taxing the hell out of these polluting industries is a solution, as it will raise the oil price and force people to consume less.

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[-] rhythmisaprancer@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

I really think that, if we are to get this to work, we must start with the ranchers as well. I live on one of those 'more cows than people' areas, and I don't think any rancher is going to hang up that income opportunity until they have a viable alternative. Some of them have already diversified to meet ends, but I think most have not.

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[-] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'll take things that are never going to happen for $500, Alex

[-] OnU@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

Do you think it will never happen or that it's gonna take a lot of time and education? There seems to be a trend that societal change that reaches 3,5% take over an manifest themselfs. (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world)

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[-] Teon@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

No! Make them eat MORE meat. All meat all day, 5x a day. +meat snacks.
Clog those arteries as fast as possible and we are finally rid of these idiots who think meat is an essential ingredient to their masculinity.
This is why they need viagara!
And someone send them some cigarettes, unfiltered.

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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
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Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

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