Sikh 'barred from Birmingham jury service' for religious sword (www.bbc.co.uk)

submitted 10 months ago by Chariotwheel@kbin.social to c/unitedkingdom@feddit.uk

44 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Jatinder Singh, from Smethwick, was summoned to serve as a juror at Birmingham Crown Court on Monday

But, he said, a security guard refused him entry at the court over his kirpan, the sword carried by all Sikhs.

The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) said Mr Singh was released from his duties as there was a surplus of required jurors.

Meanwhile, His Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) has apologised to Mr Singh.

Khalsa Sikhs carry the five Ks with them at all times, as a symbol of their faith.

These include Kesh or uncut hair; Kara which is a a steel bracelet; the Kanga, a wooden comb; Kacca or cotton underwear and the Kirpan

Mr Singh, who has served as president at Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Smethwick and as secretary general of the Sikh Council UK, said this was the second time he has been summoned for jury service, the first passing with no issue.

On this occasion, he entered the morning session with no problems, but when he tried to return to the court after lunch was pulled aside by a security guard and told he could not go in.

"The security guard said I could take [my kirpan] off and leave it with him and collect it at the end of the day," he said.

"I felt like a child who has gone to school and taken something they shouldn't and had it confiscated.

"To have that happen to me, I felt embarrassed, I felt discriminated against, I didn't expect it to happen to me."

He called for the (MoJ) to work with Sikh and other religious organisations to create easily accessible guidelines that can be provided to staff.

Dabinderjit Singh, the principal adviser to the Sikh Federation UK said it had written to Justice Minister Alex Chalk asking him to condemn the treatment of Mr Singh.

The MoJ said members of the Sikh community wishing to enter a court building could bring in a Kirpan which was not more than six inches long (15cm) and with a blade no more than five inches (12cm) in length - which Mr Singh said his was.

A spokesperson for HMCTS added: "We have apologised to Mr Singh for any distress caused and have reminded our contracted security officers of the correct steps to take to prevent this incident from happening again."

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[-] HerbalGamer@lemm.ee 31 points 10 months ago

"This is my emotional support sword"

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 25 points 10 months ago

I mean Sikhs have a special dispensation in law explicitly to carry the kirpan to court. It does suck for someone to have a specific law saying "you can definitely do this in this place" and have a rent-a-cop claim his personal decision is more important than the law of the country and a lifetime of religion and culture.

Especially as most kids learn about the 5 K of Sikhism in school.

[-] Halosheep@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Where do kids learn about Sikhism in school? Definitely not here in the states.

[-] aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 14 points 10 months ago

I would assume they are talking about UK schools, because that is where the event in the article occurred.

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

in RE class (religious education)

EDIT: just noticed you said "here in the states" in "UnitedKingdom" — did they undo the revolution, finally?

[-] christophski@feddit.uk 1 points 10 months ago

We are definitely made aware of it in school, though not in-depth

[-] FastAndBulbous@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Not at my school we weren't.

[-] christophski@feddit.uk 1 points 10 months ago

This would have been around 2008 for me, secondary school

[-] FastAndBulbous@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

I'm slightly older than you.

[-] FastAndBulbous@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

We didn't learn about Sikhism in school (actually UK here)

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 months ago

I've been out of education (both as a student and educator) for nearly a decade now, but a quick Google tells me that NATRE, AREIAC, AULRE, SACRE and the REC all recommend education on Christianity, Baha'iism, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, and Humanism but YMMV by teacher, school, LEA, your personal attendance etc.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 12 points 10 months ago

It's actually an important part of their religious and cultural practices, and according to the article it appears that this man did follow the restrictions placed on these ceremonial blades by the court, so he should not have been denied entry.

[-] HerbalGamer@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago

It’s actually an important part of their religious and cultural practices

that should -imho- never be relevant. Religions shouldn't have any more legal meaning than a book club. but here we are.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 13 points 10 months ago

I tend to agree, but the place to start isn't by targeting minority religions.

[-] HerbalGamer@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

just wait until we invent actual lightsabers and the jedi start showing up

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

The younglings: "Here we go again!"

Seinfeld slap bass

[-] Bonehead@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

But that minority religion is the only one presenting the problem...

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 5 points 10 months ago

TIL that adhering to the court's own policy is "causing a problem." Sure, let's just let officials make up rules on the fly instead of applying their own policies fairly. Surely that won't cause any further problems.

[-] Bonehead@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago

First, I said "presenting the problem", not "causing a problem".

Second, I didn't say that rules should be made up on the spot. But it should have been dealt with originally instead of letting it get to this point. Rolling over for a single religion is the antithesis of the separation of church and state, regardless of how much of a minority it is.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Rolling over for a single religion

Lmao this is so unhinged and dramatic. Kirpans are generally dull-bladed and less threatening than a sharp pen or pencil. The only religion I see public officials rolling over for is Christianity.

Edit: Also, just change "causing" to "presenting" in my last comment, if you prefer. Either way, it serves to highlight your own folly.

[-] Empricorn@feddit.nl 1 points 10 months ago

"What task has it been trained to help you with?"

[-] Veraxus@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago

So you don't know what the kirpan is for or what it symbolizes.

Way to advertise your ignorance like some maga chud screaming "woke".

[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 24 points 10 months ago

I thought it was pretyt well understood that Sikhs carry these. I'm surprised the security guard hadn't been properly briefed.

[-] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

Maybe in the UK, as an American I didn’t even know Sikhs existed until I was 20 and met one while trying to move to a city. I didn’t even know about the 5 Ks until today at 30, I thought the turban and suit/vest thing they wear were then major religious adornments. Then again the only Sikh I see regularly is the Canadian politician Jagmeet Singh

[-] mannycalavera@feddit.uk 15 points 10 months ago

MFW Americans realise this is how they get to carry guns into schools.

[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 13 points 10 months ago

This is an interesting problem. On the one hand, the rules were clearly defined and he followed them. On the other, I feel that religious exemptions are a slippery slope that could enable poor behavior. Though his behavior was not poor, others could use that as an opportunity to act poorly.

Ideally I'd love a policy that meets our needs when applied uniformly, but in this case I don't see an alternative to individual review of religious exemption requests. But who reviews the reviewers? It is a laborious bootstrap problem and would ultimately need a certifying body like we have NIST for measurement standards.

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 10 points 10 months ago

Damn, reddit atheists out in full force huh? Out of all the religions to mock, make fun of, or throw a temper tantrum about, Sikhism should be at the bottom of the list. My understanding is that their religion literally does its best to avoid conflict with other religions and beliefs, including atheism, as it sees all people who seek the Absolute Truth to be valid.

[-] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 24 points 10 months ago

I'm an atheist. I like Sikhs. I've met a few in my life and they have seemed to be excellent people. They were kind, interested in the world around them, and unlike most religious people they never tried to push their beliefs. Their outfit is kinda rad too, what with the turban and sword and all. I'll take them over any of the Abrahamic faiths any day.

[-] Tammo-Korsai@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago

Amazing beards, too.

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 4 points 10 months ago

To be clear, I'm not referring to all atheists; I'm talking about the reddit-style ones that seem to take offense at any and all religions and get angry when anyone asks for any kind of exemption or allowance based on their religion (aka, anti-theists).

[-] byroon@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

This isn't reddit

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

A Sikh with a kirpan is less of a threat than a Christian with a Bible

[-] Empricorn@feddit.nl 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Didn't you hear? They're all supremely enlightened and know the absolute truth:

All religions are bad and wrong and stupid
No religion teaches peace or love
Every atheist is smarter and superior to anyone with faith
Every person who believes in anything is wasting their life

[-] sizzler@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

If you need religion to teach you peace or love then you are truly lost.

[-] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

The Mandalorians are going to have a field day with this one

[-] Biohazard@feddit.uk 6 points 10 months ago

It is birmingham. You can't be too careful :P

[-] DeathWearsANecktie@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

"BIRMINGHAM IS A FUCKING SHITHOLE! I HATE THE FUCKING PLACE!" - Danny G

[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago

I find them looking cool.

a picture of kirpan, a small curved sword

Also, kinda hard to use without a proper training. I don't know if Sikhs go through it or mostly just carry it. Having a knife at all times sound based to me.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 10 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

A Sikh man said he felt "embarrassed and discriminated against" after being prevented from taking part in jury service due to his religious sword.

These include Kesh or uncut hair; Kara which is a a steel bracelet; the Kanga, a wooden comb; Kacca or cotton underwear and the Kirpan

On this occasion, he entered the morning session with no problems, but when he tried to return to the court after lunch was pulled aside by a security guard and told he could not go in.

He called for the (MoJ) to work with Sikh and other religious organisations to create easily accessible guidelines that can be provided to staff.

The original article contains 430 words, the summary contains 185 words. Saved 57%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] darklypure@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago

Attacking

this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023

69 points (100.0% liked)

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